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Pay rise

 
#1 Pay rise
29/03/2014 19:07

H19

Hi guys,

My current salary is 50k (not in London ) if I switch to deloitte consulting as manager in London, how much payrise should I expect? I have 5% bonus. Please advise

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#2 RE: Pay rise
31/03/2014 13:51

Mr Cool to H19 (#1)

Errr. Wrong question. The question you should be asking is "what is the minimum salary and associated benefits (being precise about the mix) that I would be willing to accept in order to take up this job offer?"

If they offer that or more, you can take the job, if you want it.

If they offer less, turn it down.

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#3 RE: Pay rise
31/03/2014 14:11

Bushy Eyebrow Partner to Mr Cool (#2)

Hehe that sort of thinking is the reason why our tough-nosed capitalist friend Coolio has so much DO$H. :-) :-) :-)

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#4 RE: Pay rise
31/03/2014 17:20

Anon MCs to Bushy Eyebrow Partner (#3)

Agree with BEP...

As an example;

Coolio's day rate is so high that if he takes a toilet break during the day, that alone is a £50k cost to the client in question. If he also washes his hands, that's the 5% you get H19.

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#5 RE: Pay rise
31/03/2014 17:47

Bushy Eyebrow Partner to Anon MCs (#4)

I heard rumours that, the last time Mr Cool checked his bank balance at a cashpoint, the computer in the cashpoint crashed because of an "out of bounds" error and they had to update the display so that it could show numbers in standard form.

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#6 RE: Pay rise
31/03/2014 22:02

H19 to Bushy Eyebrow Partner (#5)

Hey Guys, I was trying to understand industry trend in terms of pay rise when you switch jobs - will be great help if you can provide your expert advise on it

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#7 RE: Pay rise
01/04/2014 12:11

Mr Cool to H19 (#6)

OH! You're referring to the Treathy of Leatherhead, when, back in the mid-seventies, all the consultancy firms got together and agreed standard salary increases for people moving between firms. It was just before the country voted in the UK Trotsky Party as the new government.

In that case I believe the agreed increase for a non London experienced hire transfer to Deloitte Manager level is 7.3%.

You do know that the supply and demand curve is a synthetic construct that is a predominantly scholastic representation of the cumulative points of price determined by individual market participants, and NOT a prescriptive Leninist central pricing authority?

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#8 RE: Pay rise
01/04/2014 12:21

Tacitus1 to Mr Cool (#7)

LOL!!

Made my day!

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#9 RE: Pay rise
02/04/2014 01:50

Phil to Mr Cool (#7)

..or we could actually try to be helpful and tell him that the salary band should start at approx. £75k base

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#10 RE: Pay rise
02/04/2014 09:10

Bushy Eyebrow Partner to Mr Cool (#7)

Mr Cool is, as always, spot on.

Please remember, everybody, that what you hear on the BBC is mostly not true! For instance, David Cameron does NOT "run the country". There is a heavy left-wing bias and for this reason you should try and un-do all that brainwashing you had when you grew up watching the BBC as a kid and understand that there are no "rules" when it comes to pay rise percentages and the like. There may be norms or customs, but it is all about negotiation at the individual level. You could be cleaning toilets for £8/hour one day and the CEO of a bank the next day... or you could even be getting £8/hour for cleaning toilets one day and then join another company and get £999,999,999/hour for doing exactly the same work. Whilst unlikely, there is nothing at all that says your next step "must be approximately 10% better paying than your current role", despite what the lefties and closet commies (or those with a vested interest in keeping your pay down) might say. This is why Mr Cool has 4 houses and earns £300K/year.

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#11 RE: Pay rise
02/04/2014 17:06

Mr Cool to Bushy Eyebrow Partner (#10)

To be honest BEP, my housing and income excesses are almost entirely down to the willingness of the large majority to constrain their self valuation by thinking about the propaganda of salary bands rather than the value of what they add to their clients.

As they are willing to take less than their true value, it leaves more for me.

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#12 RE: Pay rise
02/04/2014 17:46

Bushy Eyebrow Partner to Mr Cool (#11)

He he he, if you ever write a book, Mr Cool, I will surely buy it

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#13 RE: Pay rise
08/04/2014 17:43

Mr Cool to Bushy Eyebrow Partner (#12)

Well BEP, I just don't understand why other people find it so hard to believe in themselves and to stick to their guns.

I'm currently in a well paid longish term contract. Great for the CV, top name client. However, I get a call last week from an agent searching on behalf of an ex client.

I do my homework BEFORE the call, so I know that the rate for the grade of job they describe is 50% higher than my current rate.

"They'd love you" says the agent "how much are you on now"

"I'd be looking for X" reply I (naming my current rate +50%) "The client knows me, I know the very specific area of the business, two of the MD sponsors know me, etc. I'm not perfect for ALL jobs, but I am perfect for THIS job"

"Yeah, but how much are you on?"

"Not relevant. I won't move for less than X"

Agency puts me forward. Of course! I'm a good chance of them getting a fat fee, plus I'll be recruiting a team.

The new client may not pay what I want, but if they don't, guess what? I'm in a well paid, long term contract at a blue chip client.

Know your BATNA. Stick to it.

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#14 RE: Pay rise
08/04/2014 20:52

presidentbartlet to Mr Cool (#13)

Well BEP, I just don't understand why other people find it so hard to believe in themselves and to stick to their guns.

I'm currently in a well paid longish term contract. Great for the CV, top name client. However, I get a call last week from an agent searching on behalf of an ex client.

I do my homework BEFORE the call, so I know that the rate for the grade of job they describe is 50% higher than my current rate.

"They'd love you" says the agent "how much are you on now"

"I'd be looking for X" reply I (naming my current rate +50%) "The client knows me, I know the very specific area of the business, two of the MD sponsors know me, etc. I'm not perfect for ALL jobs, but I am perfect for THIS job"

"Yeah, but how much are you on?"

"Not relevant. I won't move for less than X"

Agency puts me forward. Of course! I'm a good chance of them getting a fat fee, plus I'll be recruiting a team.

The new client may not pay what I want, but if they don't, guess what? I'm in a well paid, long term contract at a blue chip client.

Know your BATNA. Stick to it.

Hah - remember doing BATNA at one of the core Accenture schools, are you an ex partner in disguise?

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#15 RE: Pay rise
08/04/2014 23:52

Phil to Mr Cool (#13)

I completely agree with that, but I believe this is what the author of the post was trying to do, exactly "doing his homework before going to the interview" (or, at least, this is how I understood the question).

I believe that giving him a ballpark figure for what the salary band of a particular role is is a legitimate answer to the question and, in this case, I hope it stirred him away from giving any indication about his/her current salary, as I am afraid this would have meant a very likely (yet unfair) downgrade to SC.

Completely agree that the right question one should ask to himself is "What is the minimum salary and associated benefits that I would be willing to accept in order to take up this job offer?" but how is trying to understand how much you could expect to be offered contradictory to this? It might just save you the time of going to the interview if the amount is below your minimum threshold.

The "pay me for the value I add" argument is a very valid and interesting one, but I would think it hardly applies for anyone below Director/Partner level..

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#16 RE: Pay rise
09/04/2014 06:56

Camster to Phil (#15)

Just like Kool and the Gang, I have been approached by a household UK name. Just like him, I know exactly where I stand, 'cos I did the necessary/relevant research.

Big companies (like the above and the OP's target, i.e. Deloitte) have bands. Find out which band you will sit in. Find out what salary ranges relate to that particular band. Find out if Deloitte are known to pay over the odds for "exceptional talent".

The problem is, the OP (like so many before) poses a question without offering details.

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#17 RE: Pay rise
09/04/2014 08:58

Mr Cool to Phil (#15)

Phil - you are right in what you say, but that's not the impression I got from the OP. In fact the his second post specifically refers to "industry trend in terms of pay rise when you switch jobs".

There is no such thing.

There may be bands. In some firms these can be broken. In others the qualification criteria can be massaged to ensure an adequate package is available.

Clearly if there is overlap between the acceptable solution ranges of the two negotiators there will be a deal.

In terms of "pay me what I'm worth" only applying to director and above. I disagree. People who make it to Partner do not start thinking like a Partner once they make it. They do so from Manager onwards. Other than raw grads, anyone finding themselves being considered too junior to be treated as an individual asset at the firm, is at the wrong firm. Being at the right firm is also part of your BATNA.

Work is not all about money, but most people moan about it and want more. If so then its worth remembering......

Don't confuse latitude to negotiate with the attitude to negotiate

That's not a quote - that ones mine.

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#18 RE: Pay rise
09/04/2014 09:25

Mr Cool to presidentbartlet (#14)

Hah - remember doing BATNA at one of the core Accenture schools, are you an ex partner in disguise?

Two answers to that.

1. Not everything you learn at Accenture is in-house. BATNA is Fisher and Ury and shame on any consultant that doesn't read Getting to Yes - by far the best negotiation book even today.

2. Shhhhh!

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