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Finished 2nd yr Uni with no internship place for summer

 
#1 Finished 2nd yr Uni with no internship place for summer
04/06/2015 22:39

cooldudeman

I am at the university of Birmingham and I want to get into management consulting after uni. I tried so hard and made sooo many application for management consulting but didn't get even an interview for any of them. I achieved a first class in my first year and I think I done pretty well this year too (haven't got results yet). My A-levels are A*AA and a B at AS level.

I am no in a position with nothing to do in the summer but carry on with my mcdonalds job. I have just started trying to ask for work experience to firms.

Can someone give me some advise on what to do to make me guarantee a place for management consulting after my degree.

Also what firms aren't so elite that I can ask for experience.

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#2 RE: Finished 2nd yr Uni with no internship place for summer
05/06/2015 00:39

Bushy Eyebrow Partner to cooldudeman (#1)

Step 1: make sure you spell-check your cover letter and ask a friend to review the grammar.

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#3 RE: Finished 2nd yr Uni with no internship place for summer
05/06/2015 09:37

Frio to Bushy Eyebrow Partner (#2)

+1

It's up to you but you may also want to consider the following:

- Your post did not contain the word "please" I find this slightly rude. Especially given that this is your first post on the forum and you have not clearly articulated what research (if any) you have completed.

- If you come to this forum as "informed" you will get better results. There is massive of information of which consulting firms are perceived to be Strat houses, big 4 etc etc. You're effectively trying to use us like google.

- You have good academics at A-Level and attending a reasonable university. Having said that you have not supplied sufficient information to advise on what you can do to secure yourself an MC job, other than give you the same generic advice that you can find through a forum or google search.

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#4 RE: Finished 2nd yr Uni with no internship place for summer
28/06/2015 17:54

cooldudeman to Frio (#3)

ignore

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#5 RE: Finished 2nd yr Uni with no internship place for summer
28/06/2015 17:55

cooldudeman to Frio (#3)

+1

It's up to you but you may also want to consider the following:

- Your post did not contain the word "please" I find this slightly rude. Especially given that this is your first post on the forum and you have not clearly articulated what research (if any) you have completed.

- If you come to this forum as "informed" you will get better results. There is massive of information of which consulting firms are perceived to be Strat houses, big 4 etc etc. You're effectively trying to use us like google.

- You have good academics at A-Level and attending a reasonable university. Having said that you have not supplied sufficient information to advise on what you can do to secure yourself an MC job, other than give you the same generic advice that you can find through a forum or google search.

Hello, really sorry I never said please. Its just all the forums I use like Maths stack exchange and TSR, are ones that nobody really says stuff like that. But regardless I will always do so now. I didn't even think that anyone would reply!

All I have is petty work experience. I live in the UK (just realised this website is .com so I hope that is not going to be a problem for me getting advice).

I have contacted this firm called VC consulting and they said they were already full on interns but said that they will ask their clients if they need an extra intern, so this seems like a dead deal to me.

I contacted PwC but they just kept going on about internships which I was unsuccessful with.

I have been applying for any available financial internships which I am waiting a reply on but with these roles, I'm not very passionate about most of them since they are just the leftover opportunities. I just applied so I don't end up wasting my summer.

But I really want MC experience mainly because correct me if I am wrong but every firm has like an assessment centre for the graduate scheme and having MC experience would make me better at that.

I pretty much pasted my CV. Please have a look at it and advise me on what I should do to get a grad offer in MC!!

EDUCATION & QUALIFICATIONS:

University of Birmingham Oct 2013 – Jul 2016

BSc Mathematics – First Class in second year (Averaged 85%) and in first year

Modules: Algebra, Mechanics, Differential Equations, Programming, Financial Mathematics

BMET College & Aston Manor Academy Sep 2009 – Jul 2013

A-Levels: Mathematics A*, Further Mathematics A, Physics A

GCSEs: 3A*s, 5As, 1B in Maths, English, Science, Additional Science, D&T, Art, IT, Business

WORK EXPERIENCE:

Dec 2014 – Present McDonald's, Birmingham Sales Assistant

▪ Work as teams to welcome customers, take orders and offer advice regarding menus

▪ Serve customers by advising and persuading them of new offers available at the store

▪ Communicate with fellow employees to help on how a task can be done more efficiently

▪ Help in locating and confirming the preciseness of transactions and operate equipment with secondary electronic data processing

Oct 2014 – Present Clear Links, Birmingham Support Worker (At University)

▪ Communicate with students with disabilities who have trouble taking notes in lectures to find out how they prefer notes taken

▪ Present clear and concise notes on the various relevant topics

POSITIONS OF RESPONSIBILITY:

2014 – 2015 Investment Society, University of Birmingham

▪ Communicated with experienced individuals to gain insight of professional service roles

▪ Learned about daily routines of Consultants and how they manage their day efficiently

2011 – 2012 Home Tutoring

▪ Achieved A* at GCSE Maths at age 14

▪ Led and managed a private tutor group helping them achieve top grades

2010 Maths Challenge, University of Birmingham

▪ Teamed up with students from different schools to communicate and tackle advanced math problems

▪ Led my group to organise methods to solve the problems given

▪ Built relationships with teammates to improve strength of group work

COMPUTER SKILLS: MS Suite, Internet, Email, LaTeX, Macromedia Flash

LANGUAGES & INTERESTS: Fluent in English and Bengali & Enjoy biking, skateboarding and self-teaching the piano

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#6 RE: Finished 2nd yr Uni with no internship place for summer
29/06/2015 00:13

Frio to cooldudeman (#5)

I'm not sure if I'm being led along here but anyway...

You need to rewrite your CV, go to your careers advisors within your university and seek help. It is a complete blocker - if I read your CV I would be extremely unlikely to interview you.

- Concentrate on what you have done - do not use "we" in your CV.

- As BEP suggested get a friend who you know has good grammar to correct your CV.

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#7 RE: Finished 2nd yr Uni with no internship place for summer
29/06/2015 02:41

OJOJ to cooldudeman (#5)

Hi there,

Hopefully I can give a bit of worthwhile advice, I recently graduated from Uni of Manchester and secured a job as an analyst with Accenture with no significant prior experience.

I did not have any specific consulting experience, nor did I have a longer term internship. Only 3/4 short term work experience placements over the last 2 years with various banks and accountants. Be aware that people don't usually mean they got an official scheme when they say they have an 'internship' - more often than not it was 3 weeks in Daddy's office - so don't do yourself down. Show willing, call/email/go to some firms and volunteer your services for a few weeks. I think having a total of 4-6 weeks experience in 2/3 different places is still a great C.V boost and gives you a lot to talk about during your applications/interviews! If it appeals to you then consider going travelling! I went to Canada & Iceland in my summer last year and it went down a treat with interviewers and gave me a lot of unique things to talk about in applications and another interesting addition to the C.V - as well as being the best 10 weeks of my life (so far)!

As for your struggle to progress to the latter rounds of the application progress the the advice about getting your C.V/cover letter checked by as many people as possible for improvement is bang on the money. I did the same with my answers to the short answer questions often asked in the early stages until I had really got the hang of them too. Don't rush these things, any weak answer or poor spelling so early in the process is going to be lethal. Personally I tended to try and be as concise as possible and undercut the word limit significantly, which seems hard to believe looking at this reply. Same goes for the online testing, I was awful at the Non Verbal Reasoning tests (shapes and patterns) so went away and did a lot of online practice until I got the hang of them.

Overall I think practice is key, the best advice I was given about applying for a job was not to apply for the position you really want first because you will never get it! Do multiple drafts of your cover letters and short answer questions to make sure they are perfect, practice the tests so you don't make stupid arithmetic errors, practice interviews with family on the phone using the generic question banks online (being able to think of a decent answer quickly is a skill in itself).

So, don't frett about not having an official internship! You are obviously bright and that's half the battle my friend. It sounds cliche but getting a grad scheme is all about separating yourself out from the other applicants and giving the HR person a genuine reason to progress your application as opposed to not giving them a reason to reject you, if I'm still making sense at 01.27am.

Hope that helps,

OJ

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#8 RE: Finished 2nd yr Uni with no internship place for summer
29/06/2015 13:33

cooldudeman to OJOJ (#7)

Hi there,

Hopefully I can give a bit of worthwhile advice, I recently graduated from Uni of Manchester and secured a job as an analyst with Accenture with no significant prior experience.

I did not have any specific consulting experience, nor did I have a longer term internship. Only 3/4 short term work experience placements over the last 2 years with various banks and accountants. Be aware that people don't usually mean they got an official scheme when they say they have an 'internship' - more often than not it was 3 weeks in Daddy's office - so don't do yourself down. Show willing, call/email/go to some firms and volunteer your services for a few weeks. I think having a total of 4-6 weeks experience in 2/3 different places is still a great C.V boost and gives you a lot to talk about during your applications/interviews! If it appeals to you then consider going travelling! I went to Canada & Iceland in my summer last year and it went down a treat with interviewers and gave me a lot of unique things to talk about in applications and another interesting addition to the C.V - as well as being the best 10 weeks of my life (so far)!

As for your struggle to progress to the latter rounds of the application progress the the advice about getting your C.V/cover letter checked by as many people as possible for improvement is bang on the money. I did the same with my answers to the short answer questions often asked in the early stages until I had really got the hang of them too. Don't rush these things, any weak answer or poor spelling so early in the process is going to be lethal. Personally I tended to try and be as concise as possible and undercut the word limit significantly, which seems hard to believe looking at this reply. Same goes for the online testing, I was awful at the Non Verbal Reasoning tests (shapes and patterns) so went away and did a lot of online practice until I got the hang of them.

Overall I think practice is key, the best advice I was given about applying for a job was not to apply for the position you really want first because you will never get it! Do multiple drafts of your cover letters and short answer questions to make sure they are perfect, practice the tests so you don't make stupid arithmetic errors, practice interviews with family on the phone using the generic question banks online (being able to think of a decent answer quickly is a skill in itself).

So, don't frett about not having an official internship! You are obviously bright and that's half the battle my friend. It sounds cliche but getting a grad scheme is all about separating yourself out from the other applicants and giving the HR person a genuine reason to progress your application as opposed to not giving them a reason to reject you, if I'm still making sense at 01.27am.

Hope that helps,

OJ

Hi, thanks so much for your advice. Congrats on getting in to such a good firm! Very jealous.

I have been calling and emailing firms to ask for volunteer work but they say they have no placements but I will keep trying other firms!

You mentioned that you did numerical and verbal reasoning tests but the website for Accenture application: http://careers.accenture.com/Microsites/uk-graduate/apply/Pages/acg-process.aspx

just says we have to do some sit judge test. Doesn't mention any other test... Is that strange?

Also, so people call themselves an 'intern' when they are not really one? So if I get some work experience/volunteer work at a firm, I should write on my CV that I was an intern?

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#9 RE: Finished 2nd yr Uni with no internship place for summer
29/06/2015 13:34

cooldudeman to Frio (#6)

I'm not sure if I'm being led along here but anyway...

You need to rewrite your CV, go to your careers advisors within your university and seek help. It is a complete blocker - if I read your CV I would be extremely unlikely to interview you.

- Concentrate on what you have done - do not use "we" in your CV.

- As BEP suggested get a friend who you know has good grammar to correct your CV.

Unfortunately I think my careers uni help is closed now...

Can you please tell me what is wrong with my CV.

I have never used the word 'we' once. I even used CTRL + F to check.

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#10 RE: Finished 2nd yr Uni with no internship place for summer
29/06/2015 13:53

marsday to cooldudeman (#9)

Frio was just advising you not to use 'we' rather to focus on your personal contributions and outcomes.

Problem, action, result. That's how everything on your CV should be structured.

Given your lack of experience, you could consider a skills based approach, which would then allow you to back up each skill with evidence, followed by a chronological cv.

A cover letter will also be important for you - learn how to write one.

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#11 RE: Finished 2nd yr Uni with no internship place for summer
30/06/2015 02:24

OJOJ to cooldudeman (#8)

I know how you feel, there is definitely a lot of luck involved. I found I was usually successful when I happened to have a connection to the firm. For instance, I had a meeting with a bank manager about my student account shortly before I asked for work experience there and so it meant there was already a relationship there to build on. Most of the big firms will be very strict about numbers and how they accept work experience people but I recommend either smaller branches of national chains or independent firms - make it clear you are willing to work for an amount of time to suit them etc and try to find somewhere with a connection to you/your family/family friend (it's all about who you know even at this stage unfortunately). Obviously consulting experience would be ideal but I think any professional experience looks good and more than anything it is about showing you had the drive to get off the sofa and try out a few new things. Variety is your friend, make yourself look interesting (which I'm sure you are anyway).

No, you are right, Accenture didn't do rigorous online testing but this is very unusual. Every other firm I applied to asked for at least Numerical and Verbal tests, often with Situation and Non verbal tests too. They are all very similar but there is a definite technique to doing well!

Yes, a lot of my uni friends had internships that weren't official schemes. Personally I felt uncomfortable saying 2 weeks at a stock broker (or something similar) was an 'internship' so only listed it as work experience. No matter what you call it - don't be shy about the time you have done and the skills/exposure you gained, because other candidates will milk it dry.

Also, with regards to your C.V, I am wary of giving too much advice as I'm not exactly experienced in these matters but I do have a few thoughts. Firstly, my C.V isn't dissimilar to yours in style, I have a single side of A4 (most firms ask for this) split into eductaion, employment history, relevant experience and misc and 1-3 bullet points explaining/describing any 'achievement' in each section.

My initial thought is that you may want to rethink where you put the emphasis, your investment society and Clear Links sections seem interesting and like they may have given you a lot of relevant skills so consider giving them more emphasis compared to McDonalds? I would recommend really taking some time to think about how you want to structure the C.V etc and then send off a few drafts to friends and family and ask for criticisms to improve it! However, I have seen people in the careers department tear up a C.V written by their colleague the week before - it's all down to taste and your C.V should at least in part reflect your personality so don't worry too much if someone doesn't like the structure. I think Frio would hate my C.V but it got me multiple grad job offers so...

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#12 RE: Finished 2nd yr Uni with no internship place for summer
30/06/2015 18:08

Smithy to cooldudeman (#9)

Even used control F? Christ.

There are plenty of websites that can give you free advise on your CV. Have a google. Or a bing.

I think you mentioned that your heart is not in it - that probably comes across.

Why don't you tell us why you are interested in management consulting? I feel that when we get your answer we'd be able to pinpoint the problem. Yes, "we".

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#13 RE: Finished 2nd yr Uni with no internship place for summer
30/06/2015 18:22

Willowsbillows to cooldudeman (#1)

I don't think it is possible to guarantee a place in MC.

Lets break down what is possible for you at this point.

MBB is out. LEK, OC&C, RB, OW are prolly out too. This is nothing to do with anything other than the fact that a large part of their undergrad demographics are oxbridge.

You are prolly left with Accenture, Big4 or Capgemini. The thing is in the big 4, the consulting places are usually extremely competitive. In fact, it was reported that almost 37 applicants for a place in pwc. You could roll a dice and apply for those schemes, or be strategic and apply for a less competitive stream in the big 4.

Regardless, without any proper work exp, it would be extremely difficult for you.

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#14 RE: Finished 2nd yr Uni with no internship place for summer
01/07/2015 17:06

cooldudeman to OJOJ (#11)

I know how you feel, there is definitely a lot of luck involved. I found I was usually successful when I happened to have a connection to the firm. For instance, I had a meeting with a bank manager about my student account shortly before I asked for work experience there and so it meant there was already a relationship there to build on. Most of the big firms will be very strict about numbers and how they accept work experience people but I recommend either smaller branches of national chains or independent firms - make it clear you are willing to work for an amount of time to suit them etc and try to find somewhere with a connection to you/your family/family friend (it's all about who you know even at this stage unfortunately). Obviously consulting experience would be ideal but I think any professional experience looks good and more than anything it is about showing you had the drive to get off the sofa and try out a few new things. Variety is your friend, make yourself look interesting (which I'm sure you are anyway).

No, you are right, Accenture didn't do rigorous online testing but this is very unusual. Every other firm I applied to asked for at least Numerical and Verbal tests, often with Situation and Non verbal tests too. They are all very similar but there is a definite technique to doing well!

Yes, a lot of my uni friends had internships that weren't official schemes. Personally I felt uncomfortable saying 2 weeks at a stock broker (or something similar) was an 'internship' so only listed it as work experience. No matter what you call it - don't be shy about the time you have done and the skills/exposure you gained, because other candidates will milk it dry.

Also, with regards to your C.V, I am wary of giving too much advice as I'm not exactly experienced in these matters but I do have a few thoughts. Firstly, my C.V isn't dissimilar to yours in style, I have a single side of A4 (most firms ask for this) split into eductaion, employment history, relevant experience and misc and 1-3 bullet points explaining/describing any 'achievement' in each section.

My initial thought is that you may want to rethink where you put the emphasis, your investment society and Clear Links sections seem interesting and like they may have given you a lot of relevant skills so consider giving them more emphasis compared to McDonalds? I would recommend really taking some time to think about how you want to structure the C.V etc and then send off a few drafts to friends and family and ask for criticisms to improve it! However, I have seen people in the careers department tear up a C.V written by their colleague the week before - it's all down to taste and your C.V should at least in part reflect your personality so don't worry too much if someone doesn't like the structure. I think Frio would hate my C.V but it got me multiple grad job offers so...

OK thanks for the info. I actually remade my CV and had it checked by some experienced people (at an architecture firm though... but i did say it was for MC).

Can i just ask, which uni did you graduate from (what course too) and what did you get for A Levels. Because i at least want to know if i have a chance academic wise.

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#15 RE: Finished 2nd yr Uni with no internship place for summer
01/07/2015 17:17

cooldudeman to Willowsbillows (#13)

I don't think it is possible to guarantee a place in MC.

Lets break down what is possible for you at this point.

MBB is out. LEK, OC&C, RB, OW are prolly out too. This is nothing to do with anything other than the fact that a large part of their undergrad demographics are oxbridge.

You are prolly left with Accenture, Big4 or Capgemini. The thing is in the big 4, the consulting places are usually extremely competitive. In fact, it was reported that almost 37 applicants for a place in pwc. You could roll a dice and apply for those schemes, or be strategic and apply for a less competitive stream in the big 4.

Regardless, without any proper work exp, it would be extremely difficult for you.

OK I have hope that i will get some MC related exp this summer. Waiting on some replies...

So you think i shouldn't apply for accenture, big4 and capgemini? Are you saying that because of my university or my lack of exp? I mean pretend like I have exp, where can I have a decent chance of getting into?

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#16 RE: Finished 2nd yr Uni with no internship place for summer
01/07/2015 19:14

Willowsbillows to cooldudeman (#15)

If you have experience, you will have a decent shot at all of them that I listed. It is about ticking the boxes and at since you have the grades (first class), if you have the work exp, you would have a great shot.

Personally, I did not do any consulting summers, but I did do a few legal vacation schemes and a banking summer internship. What I did was convince them how my experience translated. For you now, it is important to go out and get some work exp (high quality), this would help you get past screening, if not you are just going to get binned at the start.

What I was suggesting that if you did not manage to secure anything, you should not put all your eggs in one basket and just apply for MC, you could apply to audit or tax and in the future move to advisory. Though it does not mean that you will be walking into big 4 audit or tax, it is just 'relatively' easier.

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#17 RE: Finished 2nd yr Uni with no internship place for summer
02/07/2015 02:09

cooldudeman to Willowsbillows (#16)

If you have experience, you will have a decent shot at all of them that I listed. It is about ticking the boxes and at since you have the grades (first class), if you have the work exp, you would have a great shot.

Personally, I did not do any consulting summers, but I did do a few legal vacation schemes and a banking summer internship. What I did was convince them how my experience translated. For you now, it is important to go out and get some work exp (high quality), this would help you get past screening, if not you are just going to get binned at the start.

What I was suggesting that if you did not manage to secure anything, you should not put all your eggs in one basket and just apply for MC, you could apply to audit or tax and in the future move to advisory. Though it does not mean that you will be walking into big 4 audit or tax, it is just 'relatively' easier.

Can i just ask if you don't mine, where do you do MC and what uni and grades did you get.

And there is no way that i would give up trying to do MC.

Also, this might seem a bit off topic but my last name is Islam. Do you think there would be any discrimination when I apply lol? Would be so sad!

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#18 RE: Finished 2nd yr Uni with no internship place for summer
02/07/2015 08:31

Frio to cooldudeman (#17)

Are you sure you're not a troll?

No, there will be no bias around your last name.

The issue is your CV, it's what gets you through the door. Think about it - your academics are great, something else is holding you back. It's your CV.

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#19 RE: Finished 2nd yr Uni with no internship place for summer
02/07/2015 09:57

Willowsbillows to Frio (#18)

+1

If anything, there are minority schemes like SEO that look to put minority students into the most sought after employers.

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#20 RE: Finished 2nd yr Uni with no internship place for summer
02/07/2015 11:43

cooldudeman to Frio (#18)

Are you sure you're not a troll?

No, there will be no bias around your last name.

The issue is your CV, it's what gets you through the door. Think about it - your academics are great, something else is holding you back. It's your CV.

You wouldn't blame me for asking about the name if you knew about some conspiracies lol but yeah it'd be stupid.

Can I show you my edited CV and you have a really quick (dont want this thread to turn to some CV check thing) look through that one please?

I had it checked by some people in an architecture firm and I told them it was for MC and they said it is 'clean'.

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#21 RE: Finished 2nd yr Uni with no internship place for summer
03/07/2015 01:07

OJOJ to cooldudeman (#14)

I got A*AAA at A Level and got a first from University of Manchester in BSc Economics. Obviously grades matter but don't get too caught up in them. Who you are and what you bring to them is probably more important!

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#22 RE: Finished 2nd yr Uni with no internship place for summer
11/08/2015 09:50

Anon MCs to deleted (#0)

CoolDude,

I did a brief review of this thread and it was great to see all the positive (and constructive criticism) coming through. I mean it. Really good.

There aren't that many threads that get this much thought put in by some good regular writers.

You then went a bit off piste and decided to go for the "is it my race" card. This is the UK we are talking about, as a to be Consultant please do read a bit less of the Express-Sun and a bit more of the Financial Times-The Economist.

Just to make it absolutely chrystal clear, there are plenty of us on this forum whose last name is not "Smith" and we all managed to have successful careers. Blaming failures on conspiracy theories will only make us all bitter and deluded when in fact the UK is one of THE MOST progressive places we could all wish to work in.

To make things worse, you then decided to p!ss all over the good and positive stuff that you were being given here by being rude and having a chip on your shoulder with your last response (to Smithy).

Mr "CoolDude", we can all now see why you are failing even though you are clearly very very bright.

You will continue failing until that great big massive chip in your shoulder is wiped out and you can actually take some criticism and build on it to improve.

Good day to you sir and shame on you.

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#23 RE: Finished 2nd yr Uni with no internship place for summer
11/08/2015 11:14

Frio to Anon MCs (#22)

+1

I suggested you should use your careers advice service to help review your CV and get someone you know has good grammar to review it.

You responded that someone had said it was "clean" (I still don't know what that means!!) and that your careers advice service was closed.

You can take a horse to water but you can't make it drink.....

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#24 RE: Finished 2nd yr Uni with no internship place for summer
11/08/2015 11:25

Anon MCs to Frio (#23)

*Correction on my thread reply, je suis desole:

Chip on your shoulder, not in your shoulder. If it was in your shoulder then this would be more of a medical forum to help you choose surgery to remove it!!!

You see? We all make mistakes CoolDude, take it on the chin and move forward.

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