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Conundrum - Move from IBM to Cognizant for £££

 
#1 Conundrum - Move from IBM to Cognizant for £££
14/12/2014 20:15

ConsultantMan

I’m a Managing Consultant in IBM GBS making a very humble 65K base salary. I haven’ received the official offer yet from Cognizant but I requested 30% increase. i.e 85K.

They came back with “We want you, but that’s a bit high – let’s keep communication channels open”

I suspect they will offer a percentage increase that is a multiple of 5 (reasonable assumption). Therefore it can only theoretically be 15, 20 or 25% increase. 10% increase would be absolutely absurd.

Assume IBM will increase salaries this year to match inflation and potentially add a little sugar coating. Last financial year that was 6% - so I’ll assume the same for this financial year.

Additionally, I have no idea YET if they want to bring me in as a Manager or Snr. Manager. Yes. I did ask but they were a bit coy – in any case I will find out this week.

What is the minimum I should sell my soul for and how important is Manager vs. Snr. Manager.

I think I would make Snr. Managing Consultant in IBM with the next 24-36 months and this usually comes with a 20-30% increase.

What do you guys think? (Yes I will update once an offer is made and we see how accurate my %s above are)

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#2 RE: Conundrum - Move from IBM to Cognizant for £££
16/12/2014 00:50

ConsultantMan to ConsultantMan (#1)

No input, anyone?

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#3 RE: Conundrum - Move from IBM to Cognizant for £££
16/12/2014 01:55

Mr Cool to ConsultantMan (#2)

Batna?

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#4 RE: Conundrum - Move from IBM to Cognizant for £££
16/12/2014 08:48

Bushy Eyebrow Partner to Mr Cool (#3)

Your first mistake was to say you wanted a 30% increase. You should have said you want £85K.

And when they ask your current salary, give them anything but an answer. Similarly if they ask how much your mortgage costs you each month, the age and mileage of your car, or the colour of your underpants.

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#5 RE: Conundrum - Move from IBM to Cognizant for £££
16/12/2014 10:19

Anon MCs to Bushy Eyebrow Partner (#4)

ConsultantM,

Apart from BEPs points which were absolutely right;

(ie you do not confirm salary, you tell what you want to earn, or else the firm in question can then work out what they think is a reasonable % increase for you to move)

I think there is a lot more you need to think about here that just £££.

Although everyone sees Infosys / Cogni / IBM / etc as all being "a bit samey", they all have their own little ways and culture.

Which one represents what you really want? How confident are you of making Snr Manager in IBM and do you have sponsors who support you and are there for you? Do you enjoy it there?

Cogni are trying to build up an MC base hence are offering good packages for people to move (see a previous thread on this), but is it really for you? How much do you like IBM? If Cogni shoves you straight away in Stoke on Trent will the extra money be enough to keep you happy? (I'm assuming this wouldnt happen to you in IBM as you have Sponsors and hence you are a bit more of a master of your destiny)

Saying that, I know a couple of guys who worked for IBM and are now in other MCs doing very well, the MCs liked the mix of technical expertise with the ability to explain to normal humans what is going on and what it means to them

Have fun and lets face it, thats not a bad place to be re the choices.

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#6 RE: Conundrum - Move from IBM to Cognizant for £££
16/12/2014 12:21

MAK. to ConsultantMan (#1)

They ll give you Sr. Manager. If you enter cogni as Manager then you're underselling yourself. I moved from Accenture. I was a Consultant at Accenture. Joined here as Manager.

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#7 RE: Conundrum - Move from IBM to Cognizant for £££
16/12/2014 14:04

agentsmith to MAK. (#6)

Very little facts to go on here but personally I'd only ever move for a level up & increase. The only exception would be if I hated my current role and felt trapped. You'd need to totally rebuild network if you moved so starting point would be square one.

IBM have a better brand in the UK market so definitely do not move unless the offer is attractive enough. The pull factor would be that it's in growth curve rather than maintain market share mode which is probably a good place to be but make sure you go in higher than where you are now.

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#8 RE: Conundrum - Move from IBM to Cognizant for £££
16/12/2014 23:27

ConsultantMan to Bushy Eyebrow Partner (#4)

Your first mistake was to say you wanted a 30% increase. You should have said you want £85K.

And when they ask your current salary, give them anything but an answer. Similarly if they ask how much your mortgage costs you each month, the age and mileage of your car, or the colour of your underpants.

Well - I didn't give them a percentage. I asked for 85K. You're right though, I probably needed to be less forthcoming with my current salary details.

Lesson learnt.

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#9 RE: Conundrum - Move from IBM to Cognizant for £££
16/12/2014 23:32

ConsultantMan to Mr Cool (#3)

Batna?

Minimum I'd go for is 78K + 15% bonus, but I'm not telling them that. The ball is in their court, not heard from them yet - hopefully I'll hear something tomorrow.

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#10 RE: Conundrum - Move from IBM to Cognizant for £££
17/12/2014 00:00

ConsultantMan to Anon MCs (#5)

ConsultantM,

Apart from BEPs points which were absolutely right;

(ie you do not confirm salary, you tell what you want to earn, or else the firm in question can then work out what they think is a reasonable % increase for you to move)

I think there is a lot more you need to think about here that just £££.

Although everyone sees Infosys / Cogni / IBM / etc as all being "a bit samey", they all have their own little ways and culture.

Which one represents what you really want? How confident are you of making Snr Manager in IBM and do you have sponsors who support you and are there for you? Do you enjoy it there?

Cogni are trying to build up an MC base hence are offering good packages for people to move (see a previous thread on this), but is it really for you? How much do you like IBM? If Cogni shoves you straight away in Stoke on Trent will the extra money be enough to keep you happy? (I'm assuming this wouldnt happen to you in IBM as you have Sponsors and hence you are a bit more of a master of your destiny)

Saying that, I know a couple of guys who worked for IBM and are now in other MCs doing very well, the MCs liked the mix of technical expertise with the ability to explain to normal humans what is going on and what it means to them

Have fun and lets face it, thats not a bad place to be re the choices.

I've got very good sponsorship in IBM. It was suggested I go for Snr. Manager in 2015 but for various reasons (including promotion process) I'd like to do it in 2016. As long as I don't do anything stupid over the next 12-24 months I think I'd be in it with a good shot.

I've gathered that Cogni would stick me in CBC consulting and I'd be in London working for one of their Retail Banking clients.

The main thing that concerns me is the exit options if I join Cogni. The IBM brand gets me through the door for interviews at other consultancies - but not sure Cogni would do the same. I wonder if playing up the client names would fix that? I have an interview with Barclays (asked for 85K) early 2015, but I have a bird in hand that will fly away assuming a good offer is tabled and the usual 2 weeks to accept the offer.

I strongly believe I could thrive at Cogni as well - maybe it's because I think it's up to an individual to make the most of any situation you find yourself in.

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#11 RE: Conundrum - Move from IBM to Cognizant for £££
17/12/2014 00:02

ConsultantMan to MAK. (#6)

They ll give you Sr. Manager. If you enter cogni as Manager then you're underselling yourself. I moved from Accenture. I was a Consultant at Accenture. Joined here as Manager.

Hope so - or I definitely won't do it. Snr. Manager + £££ would tempt me.

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#12 RE: Conundrum - Move from IBM to Cognizant for £££
17/12/2014 00:09

ConsultantMan to agentsmith (#7)

Very little facts to go on here but personally I'd only ever move for a level up & increase. The only exception would be if I hated my current role and felt trapped. You'd need to totally rebuild network if you moved so starting point would be square one.

IBM have a better brand in the UK market so definitely do not move unless the offer is attractive enough. The pull factor would be that it's in growth curve rather than maintain market share mode which is probably a good place to be but make sure you go in higher than where you are now.

I agree with on brand. It's one of my main concerns and I'm wondering if 85K is a good number to cash in on the brand. Some would say there is no time like the present, but at the back of my mind I'm also wondering if I should wait until I'm a Snr. Manager in IBM before cashing in.

I could get stuck at Snr. Manager in IBM for life (or not even get it). I've done my research and it certainly looks like Cogni is on the up.

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#13 RE: Conundrum - Move from IBM to Cognizant for £££
17/12/2014 09:39

Bushy Eyebrow Partner to ConsultantMan (#12)

Nobody ever got fired for hiring IBM. That mood is still present amongst recruiters... Everybody loves a recognisable brand name on a CV.

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#14 RE: Conundrum - Move from IBM to Cognizant for £££
19/12/2014 17:05

cloudnumbernine4u to ConsultantMan (#9)

You have mentioned....- ''Minimum I'd go for is 78K + 15% bonus, but I'm not telling them that. The ball is in their court, not heard from them yet - hopefully I'll hear something tomorrow.''

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well...don't assume recruiters don't read this forum..!! :) specially the ones recruiting for consultancies including Cogni..!

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#15 RE: Conundrum - Move from IBM to Cognizant for £££
21/12/2014 01:01

ConsultantMan to cloudnumbernine4u (#14)

You have mentioned....- ''Minimum I'd go for is 78K + 15% bonus, but I'm not telling them that. The ball is in their court, not heard from them yet - hopefully I'll hear something tomorrow.''

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well...don't assume recruiters don't read this forum..!! :) specially the ones recruiting for consultancies including Cogni..!

Maybe I know that! Hopefully the message was received.

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#16 RE: Conundrum - Move from IBM to Cognizant for £££
23/12/2014 14:41

agentsmith to ConsultantMan (#15)

Must be so many people in this position in the big 4; me being one of them....

I'm going to have a crack at getting SM first at my current company as I think the odds are good for the next cycle. Maybe I'll have a look at opportunities then or I could be on a project I really enjoy. If not, it will be a better position to move from and it's less than a year away to find out.

If you're 24/26 months away and you reckon you can get SM now with a move, I'd go for it as you're essentially taking a short cut and saving 2-3 years.

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