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Deloitte Consulting

 
#1 Deloitte Consulting
09/05/2013 21:38

hunstman438

Hi everyone,

I'm a student at a non-target and have been offered a position on the summer scheme for consulting at Deloitte which I am chuffed about. I've heard a lot of amazing things about Deloitte and whenever I've visited their offices I've always felt very welcome and appreciated.

Having said that, I do have a few questions about them. Firstly, is the type of work at Deloitte as high profile and exciting as the likes of MBB (Mckinsey, Bain, BCG)? Also is Deloitte as prestigious as the other three? And if no for either question (which I suspect it might be), how far off them is Deloitte? Is it common or easy to go from Deloitte consulting to MBB? Also is it common for employees joining after graduation to be put through business school for their MBA at Deloitte, as the MBA is one of the things I've always really wanted to do. And if I were to apply to MBB for a graduate role post summer internship, what are my chances from a non-target?

I know this might sound silly, but a relative of mine who works at a big strategy consultant once told me that 'the Big 4 aren't really that good at consulting', I know I shouldn't base my opinion of them on this one statement but it's just been stuck in my head ever since. Is this true and to what degree? Also was that person maybe talking about the other members of the big 4 since they dropped their consulting arm post-Enron and are now slowly building it back up?

Apologies for all the questions, I'm just really curious and excited about this opportunity! If anyone has any questions about the recruitment process I'd be more than willing to answer and help you with it.

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#2 RE: Deloitte Consulting
10/05/2013 07:19

Bushy Eyebrow Partner to hunstman438 (#1)

I can't comment on any firm specifically, but for me personally, when I think of the Big 4 I think of accountancy as being their primary focus.

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#3 RE: Deloitte Consulting
10/05/2013 08:45

marsday to hunstman438 (#1)

Firstly, is the type of work at Deloitte as high profile and exciting as the likes of MBB (Mckinsey, Bain, BCG)?

Deloitte is not the same type of firm as MBB - they do offer some strat work but really Deloitte is a quasi-SI firm quietly and successfully outgrowing its accountancy tag. Their recent acquisition of Monitor will strengthen what they do in strat, but it will still have a more delivery focused edge than MBB. That said M has been quietly, and unsuccessfully, trying to remodel itself and all MBB firms have been pushing down the food chain in mature markets as the appetite for high price tag strat projects declines (for a number of reasons).

Is Deloitte as prestigious as the other three? I presume you mean the other Big 4 firms? Yes. If you mean MBB? No. No firms are. you cant compare Big 4 and MBB - they really are an ocean apart in brand. What you need to get you head around is that MBB occupy a very specific tier in consulting, one almost removed from the main industry and best seen as a sub-set in their own right. It's not common - but possible - to go from Deloitte to MBB. It has been done. Deloitte wont put you though an MBA, you'll have to fund that yourself. And it will need to be a tier 1 school if you want to use that to move to MBB. I cant comment on the chances of an internship at MBB, but you will be competing with Oxbridge grads with a double first etc.

Big 4 not that good at consulting? Odd statement to make. McKinsey et al arent either just so you know. Here is the difference: total spend by a company on say Deloitte or PwC over the total life of an engagement will be higher than McKinsey. Big 4 are watched by the public as being 'consultancy' whereas most people outside consulting probably have not heard of McKinsey, or only vaguely. Bear in mind the average Joe isnt reading WSJ. And MBB develop business through alumnus primarily, so when things go wrong (and they do) these close relationships, relative obscurity among client shareholders (who will be either institutional investors who couldnt care less about McKinsey or average Joe who doesnt know who they are anyway) and comparatively brief project durations wrap around the failure and protect the MBB brand in a way Big cannot. Big 4 too big to hide basically. So when things go wrong its more visible. In some sectors Big 4 have a mixed reputation (banking for example) but that is less to do with capability of the firm and more to do with cultural mores - bankers will say Big 4 are accountants and MBB are consultants in much the same way IB Bankers will say RB Bankers arent really Bankers.

Big 4 post Enron? Someone has been doing their homework - very pleasing. Reality it the impact of Enron - directly - was sort of side stepped by the Andersen Consulting split which happened in time. SOX hit hard but across Big 4 consulting (or 'advisory' as it is now styled) looks set to outstrip the traditional accounting/audit services. If anything it is now consulting looking back at the heritage businesses and questioning where the relationship is being strained, not least by competition reviews about the dominance of Big 4 audit relationships across the FTSE.

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#4 RE: Deloitte Consulting
10/05/2013 15:17

hunstman438 to marsday (#3)

Thanks for your reply marsday, really helpful insight in there.

Yeah I actually spoke to my interviewer about Monitor and asked him whether it would change the outlook of Deloitte consulting, all he really said was that it would mean they could take on more projects that they've had to previously say no to, and that Monitor's expertise in strat would open up more opportunities to them as a firm.

'No firms are. you cant compare Big 4 and MBB - they really are an ocean apart in brand. What you need to get you head around is that MBB occupy a very specific tier in consulting, one almost removed from the main industry and best seen as a sub-set in their own right.' So if you're saying MBB have carved out their own market, where would you classify firms like Oliver Wyman, ATKearney, Booz, LEK, OC&C etc compared to MBB and deloitte? Also if it is quite uncommon for Deloitte employees to go to MBB, what do they usually do if they choose to leave the firm? And if they don't how long does it take to make partner and what % actually make it? I've also seen some discussions of whether Deloitte is an up or out culture, thoughts on that?

Thanks again for your response, appreciate any help I can get at this point in time.

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#5 RE: Deloitte Consulting
10/05/2013 16:18

marsday to hunstman438 (#4)

'No firms are. you cant compare Big 4 and MBB - they really are an ocean apart in brand. What you need to get you head around is that MBB occupy a very specific tier in consulting, one almost removed from the main industry and best seen as a sub-set in their own right.' So if you're saying MBB have carved out their own market, where would you classify firms like Oliver Wyman, ATKearney, Booz, LEK, OC&C etc compared to MBB and deloitte? Also if it is quite uncommon for Deloitte employees to go to MBB, what do they usually do if they choose to leave the firm? And if they don't how long does it take to make partner and what % actually make it? I've also seen some discussions of whether Deloitte is an up or out culture, thoughts on that?

OW, ATK etc are usually called 'tier 2' - in reality their people are as strong as typical MBB hires but they lack the brand. Also these firms each tend to be known for a specific proposition - ATK for its operational work, LEK you would go to for transactions due diligence and modelling, OC&C very strong on consumer, OW probably the strongest FS consulting name worldwide. But MBB is a club of 3 firms and no one else is getting in.

People who leave Deloitte go all manner of places - there is a constant rotation between the Big 4 as the continually poach from each other, there are other main consulting firms or consulting arms, and midcap specialist and boutique firms. They also go client side. It depends on what they have been doing at Deloitte really. there is no one size fits all answer.

Making Partner? Well think big. Actually making Partner in a firm like Deloitte is really about getting a chair, like winning tenure at a university or a board seat at the subsidiary of a major corporate. Its a big win, but its big fish in a pond which is in fact part of a bigger pond, fed by bigger rivers. Its not the done thing these days to join as a grad and stay until partner, not least because most will leave anyway, and partners need to be rounded, grounded, and commercially viable as business originators in their own right - hard to do with just one firm on your CV and a limited professional rolodex. But hypothetically lets say you joined Deloitte as a grad and reached partner. It would take you, all being well, 5 years to Manage grade, then you have to start winning business, step up to SM, but allow for traffic as this is a major bottleneck. So lets say 8 years, you are a legend on sales and delivery, and have sponsorship from the business, Director in 10. But you need to cash in to the partnership and have a young family and an expensive wife. With some outside investments and a bit of planning you could - feasibly - make it in 15+ years. Feasibly. The reality is youll want to leave Deloitte after you get through analyst grade to shake off your trainee tag so you can start to get real recognition from peers and clients. After that, in the UK/EU market you will be wanting to move every 3 - 5 years or 2 promotions whichever comes quicker.

Up or out? Yes. But not usually as brutal as audit/accounting as there isnt the black/white exam pass/fail stage/gates to go through. More likely to be 'managed out'. Not that you will feel any better for it.

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#6 RE: Deloitte Consulting
13/05/2013 22:10

hunstman438 to marsday (#5)

Thanks again marsday, some really helpful stuff in there.

I know you said people from Deloitte go to all manner of places, but from some of the stuff I've read around here and other places do you think I'd be pigeonholing myself into other big 4 and boutique consulting by starting at Deloitte? I'm only asking this because banking is still something I'm considering and after a few years in banking (if I choose it) I'd like to go into PE/HF if possible as it's something that's really appealing to me. Would I have this opportunity post-Deloitte or is it mainly MBB analysts that go into that field? I have another issue in that I'm an international student so I'd need to be sponsored to work pretty much anywhere in the world apart from my home country, so switching firms would be a bit harder for me. How are Deloitte on the whole sponsoring aspect from your experience?

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#7 RE: Deloitte Consulting
14/05/2013 08:30

marsday to hunstman438 (#6)

Sponsorship - this is getting trickier. Best bet would be to secure your own Visa (Tier 1) as soon as you can, but this may have to wait until you have some working experience under sponsorship.

Deloitte into banking? Yes can be done, but it really depends on what you mean by banking. I assume you mean IB? In which case Deloitte will get you into back office roles. You can forget front office, and middle office...a stretch without actual IB experience. PE? Doable, but frankly you will be competing with experienced IB Associates from BB banks, then MBB analysts.

Start from the right place. If you want PE you need to start in a top tier IB - a tier 2 just wont cut the mustard. And ideally it will be in M&A. Life in M&A would make a Deloitte consultant weep so be prepared for both a very tough application process and for a soul demolishing life when you get there. You have to earn your stripes to get to PE.

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#8 RE: Deloitte Consulting
24/05/2013 16:23

hunstman438 to marsday (#7)

Hi mars,

Sorry to revive this old thread, just had a few more thoughts about all of this. Yeah I've heard of how competitive and cut throat IB is, especially the bulge brackets, the application process and the job itself. I don't think I'd struggle too much with the lifestyle, it's just I think I'd find the work really boring and repetitive, which is one of the main reasons I started looking into consulting in the first place. Having said that, do you think it's possible to go from IB/M&A to MBB after a couple of years or would they not want to touch anyone who's already 'been moulded' by IB for a couple of years.

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#9 RE: Deloitte Consulting
25/05/2013 00:58

Hypothesis-driven to hunstman438 (#8)

MBB has many former bankers in the ranks. They tend to do quite well - they have the analytical horsepower and are attuned to an intense lifestyle.

Generally, the intake is as follows:

- do a couple of years of banking

- complete MBA

- shoot for MBB.

Many examples of people taking this path successfully.

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