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ACN -dont want to sound racist, but...

 
#1 ACN -dont want to sound racist, but...
07/06/2011 12:34

tommys

i dont want to sound racist but recently i have seen A LOOOT of fresh indians in accenture offices.

what is going on here? is ACN going to India and calling people here?

i have seen notices like "do not stand on toilet seats" and some other comments like these around the offices...what is going on?

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#2 RE: ACN -dont want to sound racist, but...
07/06/2011 14:31

Charsi to tommys (#1)

Tommy’s

You do sound racist. The only reason why you see so many ‘fresh’ and ‘good’ Indians is that they have successfully gone through Accenture’s stringent recruitment process, and carry good qualifications.

As far as standing on toilets is concerned (which I am sure the Indian origin employees at Accenture don’t do), it is atleast better than getting drunk every now and then and puking on colleagues and friends.

-Charsi

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#3 RE: ACN -dont want to sound racist, but...
07/06/2011 15:21

Andrew MacGregor to Charsi (#2)

I've no idea whether its racist to remark that there are a lot of Indian people working at Accenture. However I do know the following:

1. It is probably racist to say that one group (either Indian or UK) of people are "better" or more highly skilled than the other.

2. If one is going to to outsourcing it should actually be done in the low cost country and not in the UK. The importation of staff is used as a way of getting round this.

2. As far as I understand there are at least 30000 Indian consultants in the country at any one time. 30000 lower cost people has a depressing effect on salaries and contract rates in the UK. It is understandable that people complain.

3. Such a large influx of low cost people has not happened in other "protected" professions. It leads people to the natural conclusion that it is stupid to take up a career in IT only to be outsourced at the first opportunity.

4. The system integrators always claim there are skills shortages. There are no skills shortages, only a bunch of employers who want to pay lower wages or a market rate that people are not willing to pay or work for.

3. The large system integrators cycle Indian people to this country on 6month - 2 year jobs. This effect is the same as employing those people here permanently.

5. Company consultancy rates now fallen so low that it is hard for consultancies to make money in software development. This has a highly detrimental effect on UK computer science graduates employment prospect and leads to more demand for low cost labor.

6. Until large scale low cost migration from India is allowed in other areas such as accountancy, medicine, law it should not be allowed in IT. If it is not prevented it will kill off the UK IT industry as people will naturally go into other professions.

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#4 RE: ACN -dont want to sound racist, but...
07/06/2011 15:37

Charsi to Andrew MacGregor (#3)

Do you seriously think that Accenture has hired these Indians on a lower than average salary, which otherwise would have gone to local Britons if the salary at offer was more. Give me a break!

Accenture, and any other such firms are offering competitive market salaries that are prevalent in the market, and these jobs are available to anyone for grabs. If it’s the Indians that fulfil the expectations, where is the issue?

This has got nothing to do with Outsourcing. These jobs are available for grabs at a global level, at competitive salaries, which any Briton would happily accept, if only he/ she was as good as the selected candidates (which happen to be Indians in this instance)

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#5 RE: ACN -dont want to sound racist, but...
07/06/2011 16:10

Andrew MacGregor to Charsi (#4)

Accenture is not some special organization with a unique business model that is impervious to supply and demand. They employ qualified people at the best rate they can get away with.

It may have escaped your notice but there is not an international market rate for consultancy and software. People in different countries earn varying amounts. That is why there is pressure to bring in people from lower cost locations. Of course Accenture import people on lower salaries and sell them at the UK consultancy rate. That's business.

That would be fine if the whole country threw open its doors and said come on in. However IT is a particular case where there is abuse of the visa system.

The question is why Accenture can get so many visas.

If the Indian guys are based in India and here on two year visas, then it is likely that they are on lower salaries.

If the Indians guys are here permanently then they have visas and compete at the same market rate as everybody else.

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#6 RE: ACN -dont want to sound racist, but...
07/06/2011 16:41

Charsi to Andrew MacGregor (#5)

Andrew,

I cannot but only agree with you now. I was all the way defending the Indians staying here permanently and competing at the same market rates as any other local.

Companies do find a way around by bringing their offshore guys onsite. But that has now been curbed to quite an extent as these cannot stay for more than 2 years, and have to be paid a minimum 40K per annum. This quite takes away the advantage of bringing them onsite. In which case, I wonder why would a company bring their offshore resources in hordes.

And that was the reason for me in assuming that the OP was targeting a community rather than raising a simple issue around companies bringing their own low paid offshore resources to offset costs.

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#7 RE: ACN -dont want to sound racist, but...
07/06/2011 16:47

dtacn to Charsi (#2)

Lol, Charsi - you're the one who sounds racist here. Plus you have no leg to stand on, I have seen a lot light headed Indians acting far worse after a drink or two :).

Waise main bhi tumhare desh se hi hoon :).

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#8 RE: ACN -dont want to sound racist, but...
07/06/2011 17:06

Charsi to dtacn (#7)

Can you please elaborate what was racist in my comment. Isn’t it a fact that companies send offshore resources onsite to save money? I have not suggested in any way in my comments whether it is right or wrong. I have only shared my opinion on how it has become unviable for these companies to ship offshore resources to UK. My only exception was to the OP showcasing Indians as down-trodden people not knowing how to sit on toilets.

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#9 RE: ACN -dont want to sound racist, but...
07/06/2011 17:29

dtacn to Charsi (#8)

I just think that alcohol comment was below the belt and had no basis to it.

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#10 RE: ACN -dont want to sound racist, but...
07/06/2011 17:35

Andrew MacGregor to dtacn (#9)

Comments about toilets, as described in the original email is definitely racist!

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#11 RE: ACN -dont want to sound racist, but...
07/06/2011 17:40

Tony Restell (Top-Consultant.com) to Andrew MacGregor (#10)

The "toilet" comment was out of order and not the sort of thing we want to see on here. Ordinarily it would have resulted in us removing the thread but fortunately Andrew's intervention has turned this into a more intellectual discussion. Thanks to everyone who's contributed in a level-headed manner since.

Tony Restell

Top-Consultant.com

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#12 RE: ACN -dont want to sound racist, but...
08/06/2011 11:00

someguy to Tony Restell (Top-Consultant.com) (#11)

As far as ACN is concerned, the pay differential is less important as India is no longer truly low-cost (if you don't believe me, look up the salaries for skilled programmers in Bangalore). It's the flexibility of being able to hire and then fire these guys at a moment's notice should demand not meet the forecast.

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#13 RE: ACN -dont want to sound racist, but...
08/06/2011 12:22

Charsi to someguy (#12)

Someguy,

Whilst I agree with your 1st point about the salary ranges in India no longer being in the low-cost bracket anymore, I do not agree with the ‘hire and fire at a moment’s notice’ bit.

The risk of being hired and fired in Bangalore is only as much as it is anywhere else in the world. There are proper and functioning HR divisions within each IT organisation which will never allow for someone with reasonable skills and performance to be sacked at a moment’s notice. If people need to be phased out due to lack of business, only non-performers are identified, and recently concepts like virtual bench have been introduced in the industry where an individual goes on bench for a defined period in which he/she is re-skilled and re-assessed, and if still not up to mark is given sufficient notice to move on.

Of course there will everywhere be cases of people with attitude and behavioural problems being asked to leave on short notices. But that is more an exception than the norm.

The Indian IT Industry is considered to have lead the IT revolution (more so on the cost front rather than the quality front, which I am willing to agree on), but please don’t undermine its effectiveness and achievements by judging it only on the basis of a few exceptions.

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#14 RE: ACN -dont want to sound racist, but...
08/06/2011 15:20

rc to Charsi (#13)

The other thing that certain large firms are doing which may explain the OP's observation (if it was genuine), is bringing offshore consultants onshore for 6 months on a project-subsidised basis in order to expose them to US or European consulting and management styles (which are highly valued). This both credentialises them as an easier sell onshore for future resourcing flex, and seeds those working practices back into the offshore location - which given the relatively short history of consulting there (as opposed to SI) tend to be long on worker bees but short on strong consulting leaders.

Doesn't explain the hordes of Masai warriors I've seen in the canteen at ..... oh, never mind.

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#15 RE: ACN -dont want to sound racist, but...
10/06/2011 15:42

tommys to Tony Restell (Top-Consultant.com) (#11)

toilet comment? i am just saying what i see in the office..this is cleaning team being racists not me!

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#16 RE: ACN -dont want to sound racist, but...
12/06/2011 20:31

someguy to Charsi (#13)

charsi - my comment was directed at the UK and US offices of the big consultancies and SI's - covering their short term gaps with Indian resources is a tried and true tactic.

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