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Big 4 in Oz - Ranking

 
#1 Big 4 in Oz - Ranking
21/11/2010 09:10

ScrLk

A question for people who know the Australian consulting market: How would you rank the consulting businesses of Deloitte, PwC, KPMG and E&Y in terms of:

1. Quality (employees, clients/assignments, delivery, etc)

2. Prestige (client perception and consulting market perception)

I know from experience in the US and European markets that these two measures don't always tell the same story.

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#2 RE: Big 4 in Oz - Ranking
21/11/2010 23:00

anon to ScrLk (#1)

Have only been here a couple of years, so others may have a more informed view, observations would be:

*Deloitte is the most prestigious of those 4.

*I don't think KPMG or E&Y have particularly big consulting wings in Oz, rather small advisory wings tacked on to their core business.

*Deloitte in Oz are not like Deloitte in the UK, they focus more on IT Strategy and advisory etc, they do not do large scale SI projects (that is to say, they may PM them, but they don't staff the SI design, build, test etc work).

*If you wanted to join a quality IT Cons firm over here, then it would probably be one of Deloitte, Accenture, IBM or Cap Gem. My perception is that it is these firms who are getting the big transformational projects in ANZ.

*Worth considering (depending on your level) some of those firms are still real partnerships and some are not).

*Some decent homegrown firms over here like Oakton.

Just my 0.02

Thread 65975 has some useful links if you are job hunting in Oz.

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#3 RE: Big 4 in Oz - Ranking
22/11/2010 06:00

jdp to anon (#2)

The above post by anon is correct. However, the ones mentioned acn, cap gem, deloitte etc are notorious for low-balling employees on salaries whilst making them work ridiculous hours.

As for the smaller shops mentioned, they do pay better and have real work-life balance. However, they lack brand name appeal and this leads to them gettign much smaller and less significant projects. The smaller outfits are also subject to market forces much more than the big ones.

What i would do: skip consulting and go work in IT ( perhaps as an internal consultant) for an industry firm. They usually pay well, have the work-life balance, and also have interesting projects.

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#4 RE: Big 4 in Oz - Ranking
22/11/2010 08:29

ScrLk to jdp (#3)

anon, jdp - thanks for the input.

Interesting that you mention CapGemini - I did not realise they had much traction in that part of the world!

Also, I'd love to know what the perception of PwC (consulting) is in Australia - any views?

Thanks

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#5 RE: Big 4 in Oz - Ranking
22/11/2010 13:13

jdp to ScrLk (#4)

pwc has pretty good footprint in australia; its mostly tax, finance, and superannuation work.

They are trying to diversify more into areas such as healthcare, but have limited success so far. They have large presences in syd and mel. Brand reputation is very good, however, they use their brand to justify a substandard below- market salary( unless sr manager and above).

Typical of most big global players. In fact, i know a person whose salary jumped 40% after leaving pwc australia. PWC would like to think it was them that prepared the employee well to receive such a jump...but i think we all know the reality...when you offer peanuts, a walnut looks like a massive hike. Another fact...as a grad, they will not disclose your salary UNLESS you sign the contract FIRST...yep...you heard right. But this is only for grads. They cant getaway with this for anyother tier of employee....and as i mentioned in my prev post, they are all the same....kpmg, deloitte, ey etc etc...nothing much you can do, except join as manager or snr manager and above- all of a sudden , your status, salary, and negotiating power increases big time.

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#6 RE: Big 4 in Oz - Ranking
23/11/2010 01:15

onandon to jdp (#5)

JDP, out of interest, do you have rough ideas of what the avg aus$ salaray for a manager or SM (or equivalent level) or director (for those that have the level) at any of Acn, Cap Gem, Deloitte & PWC are?

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#7 RE: Big 4 in Oz - Ranking
23/11/2010 07:36

aiva to onandon (#6)

SMs: A$ 140K - A$ 160K

Directors A$ 160K - A$ 190K

Keep in mind that income tax rate goes up to 50% once your earn A$ 180K+

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#8 RE: Big 4 in Oz - Ranking
23/11/2010 13:40

jdp to aiva (#7)

yes, aiva is pretty much correct.

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#9 RE: Big 4 in Oz - Ranking
03/12/2010 01:00

Consultant in Oz to jdp (#8)

Audit firms are still audit firms at the end of the day. They still can't compete with the top brand names.

There are boutique firms around in Oz, with partners coming out from the top brand names.

In terms of pay...I still am not convinced that the audit firms pay well....from past and recent experience, they are slavery house....pay rate is a fraction of what you can get from corporations or top brands and even boutique firms.

For boutique firms, just do your research and be cautious. Like Oakton, it maybe just a stepping stone for you to get your foot into Oz. But, for don't stay for long there....they have a string of litigation of non SLA-delivery outstanding.

If in IT space, why not consider SunGard for example? Better pay too. Only thing is it focuses mainly on Finance sector.

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