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Junior Engagement Manager at McK

 
#1 Junior Engagement Manager at McK
07/11/2010 13:41

ronald

Does anyone know what the "Junior Engagement Manager" level at Mckinsey is?

Is this:

a. the title that newly promoted Engagement Managers are given?

or

b. the title that Senior Associates that have been acting as EM use?

I see this quite a bit on ex-McK cvs

thanks

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#2 RE: Junior Engagement Manager at McK
08/11/2010 08:59

Dave to ronald (#1)

McK folk rarely under-sell themselves. Therefore it wouldn't surprise me if it was the informal title that first year analysts give to themselves when talking to recruiters.

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#3 RE: Junior Engagement Manager at McK
08/11/2010 10:16

N to ronald (#1)

It's informal.

A JEM is basically a senior Associate who is beginning to take on engagement manager roles.

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#4 RE: Junior Engagement Manager at McK
08/11/2010 10:20

Dave to N (#3)

Yeah, sort of like a "Junior Partner" that has just left university and is "only" about 8 years away from being a Partner.

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#5 RE: Junior Engagement Manager at McK
08/11/2010 10:35

Shoe Polisher to Dave (#4)

ooh, Dave, nice.

Cutting, cynical, bitter and a lil bit twisted.

Worked all weekend, have we?

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#6 RE: Junior Engagement Manager at McK
08/11/2010 15:17

Dave to Shoe Polisher (#5)

Just trying to help Ronald.

After all, he should be interested in their REAL job title rather than one they've made up to make themselves sound more grand than they actually are.

Another piece of advice is to ignore all the people who say they "almost made partner". They didn't. Oh, if only I had a penny for every person I have heard say such a thing!

So let's be clear. Stretching the truth is the same as being misleading, which is pretty much the same as outright lying - the intent is the same: i.e. to deceive. So you're inference from these types of conversations with such people should be "he/she is a liar". A very different impression to the one they are presumably intending to make.

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#7 RE: Junior Engagement Manager at McK
08/11/2010 16:30

ronald to Dave (#6)

Thanks all for your valueable input -

Dave, I doubt it's the title used by first year analysts when talking to recruiters; I normally see this immediately after the Associate position, which in McK is the position just before the EM.

My question was more around "are Junior Engagement Managers" newly promoted EMs or are they Associates that play up their role (maybe because they were "acting EMs" on one or two cases)?

Or maybe there really is a "Junior Engagement Manager" title inside McK?

Would be interesting to hear from someone in McKinsey

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#8 RE: Junior Engagement Manager at McK
08/11/2010 16:48

Dave to ronald (#7)

I'd say that a "Junior Engagement Manager" is whoever wishes to call themselves such. Unless it's an actual job title within McK, which I doubt.

What I'm trying to say is that if they're an Associate, then they're an Associate. Not something else. Such as a "Junior Engagement Manager". Or a "Even less junior Partner in training". The job title is Associate (or whatever it actually is).

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#9 RE: Junior Engagement Manager at McK
08/11/2010 16:50

Dave to Dave (#8)

Also, answering your following question...

My question was more around "are Junior Engagement Managers" newly promoted EMs or are they Associates that play up their role (maybe because they were "acting EMs" on one or two cases)?

... I'd say it's the latter. Because, let's be real, McK types have big egos and there's no way on earth than an McK employee whose title is "EM" is going to stick the word "Junior" in front of it!

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#10 RE: Junior Engagement Manager at McK
08/11/2010 17:45

Shoe Polisher to Dave (#9)

What if its an Associate in a stretch role who is halfway between grades.

The SOX compliance may say that they can't have a level x on the job but your J-EM is a level Y but has the title of Analyst.

So it would suit everyone to say he is a junior grade z than a senior grade x because his actual grade of y is betwixt and between.

In other words he could be an 'Acting' EM waiting for the confirmation letter; and strictly speaking he is no longer an analyst because he is one grade above that....

Bit like the Grand Old Duke of York, really...

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#11 RE: Junior Engagement Manager at McK
08/11/2010 20:45

Evil Consultant to Shoe Polisher (#10)

ronald,

Your answer is quite clearly that it means "associate" and nothing more. Dave is spot on and shoe polisher is probably arguing just to be a pain in the asre.

EC

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#12 RE: Junior Engagement Manager at McK
09/11/2010 08:14

ed to Evil Consultant (#11)

Aside from anything else, most companies don't call roles "junior" or "senior" now because of age discrimination legislation.

I've worked with a couple of capable Engagement Managers from McK and the typical profile has been staff in their late twenties / early thirties with 3-4 years experience at McK and industry experience prior to that.

Over the last year or so I've noticed that a lot of the experienced engagement managers have left (presumably it hasn't all been "up or out" and has reflected a lot of the underlying uncertainty in McK right now).

This has left junior staff to "act up", which as a client is a bit worrying as many of these don't really seem to have much insight about the organisations they are "advising" or the requisite industry experience to enable them to compare and contrast effectively.

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#13 RE: Junior Engagement Manager at McK
09/11/2010 08:57

anon21 to ed (#12)

JEM is a designation used consistently within McKinsey. It is not something associates start calling themselves to stroke their egos. It is not a way to con the outside world either - some of you guys really need to lay down the tin foil hat.

You know the idea so many consultancies push, the one about only being promoted once you already display the skills of the next level? Associates will not be promoted to EM without taking on JEM roles first (so yes, ronald, option b of your original question). You can argue semantics as much as you like, but JEM is clearly defined and everyone in the firm knows exactly what it means.

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#14 RE: Junior Engagement Manager at McK
09/11/2010 09:22

Shoe Polisher to anon21 (#13)

Whilst I am usually keen to be a pain in the ar$e I think I am vindicated by the above comment.

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#15 RE: Junior Engagement Manager at McK
09/11/2010 10:03

Anon to Shoe Polisher (#14)

So someone can be an Associate and a JEM at the same time?

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#16 RE: Junior Engagement Manager at McK
09/11/2010 11:01

ronald to Anon (#15)

Thanks for clarifying anon21, much appreciated.

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#17 RE: Junior Engagement Manager at McK
09/11/2010 12:37

Evil Consultant to ronald (#16)

Well, looks like Dave and I got it wrong. But I'm still secretly delighted that our McK cousins are just as status-conscious and insecure as the rest of us.

EC

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#18 RE: Junior Engagement Manager at McK
09/11/2010 13:10

Dave to Evil Consultant (#17)

Yeah, who would think that an Associate would be called something else.

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#19 RE: Junior Engagement Manager at McK
09/11/2010 14:23

Shoe Polisher to Dave (#18)

I take your (correct) point Dave BUT....

I'm called 'Practice Manager'.

Go figure.

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#20 RE: Junior Engagement Manager at McK
09/11/2010 15:09

Dave to Shoe Polisher (#19)

The secretary where I used to work was called the 'Practice Manager'. ;-) Or was it Office Manager? I can never remember.

My favourite however is when consultants say they are the "Head of XYZ" in their company. Or even better, the "Head of the XYZ unit". Usually said unit turns out to have only 1 person in it - i.e. themselves. Yes they talk about it as if it were some government department employing 25,000 staff.

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#21 RE: Junior Engagement Manager at McK
09/11/2010 15:28

rc to Dave (#20)

'global' is a good one too as it's nicely ambiguous - consultant on the bench gets asked to produce a white paper on procurement in global banks and promptly becomes Head of Global Banking Procurement

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#22 RE: Junior Engagement Manager at McK
09/11/2010 15:54

Mr Cool to rc (#21)

You have to get the order right...

Global Head of Banking Procurement is even better than Head of Global Banking Procurement

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#23 RE: Junior Engagement Manager at McK
09/11/2010 15:58

Shoe Polisher to rc (#21)

Head of Practice - EMEA

Because:

1. I'm the only one that's office based (once a week), therefore get to turn the lights on and off.

2. I can speak passable french

3. I have budgetary control upto £25k per transaction where non-billable. (Billable, the skys the limit!!)

4. I had a new title when 'Operations Manager' grades ran out and I was overdue for promotion.

5. I have two FTE's

jealous?

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#24 RE: Junior Engagement Manager at McK
09/11/2010 16:12

clever to Shoe Polisher (#23)

no, not jealous, as

a. you can't spell (it's FTEs, not FTE's)

b. you're not from McK

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#25 RE: Junior Engagement Manager at McK
09/11/2010 16:37

Shoe Polisher to clever (#24)

You're not that clever....

I was....

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#26 RE: Junior Engagement Manager at McK
09/11/2010 16:47

anon to Shoe Polisher (#25)

Was what? Was from McK or was clever?

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#27 RE: Junior Engagement Manager at McK
10/11/2010 23:09

Polish Plumber to anon (#26)

If I get a job at McKinsey, can I call myself Plumbing Practice Leader - EMEA?

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#28 RE: Junior Engagement Manager at McK
11/11/2010 09:08

rc to Polish Plumber (#27)

PP - Head of Emerging Markets Infrastructure Strategy

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#29 RE: Junior Engagement Manager at McK
11/11/2010 10:35

Dave to rc (#28)

How about "Global Infrastructure President of the USA and Remainder of the World"?

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#30 RE: Junior Engagement Manager at McK
11/11/2010 16:02

Jobsworth to Dave (#29)

My favourite job title at the moment is one of the guys on the apprentice (not sure if he's been fired yet or not), who calls himself something like "Unemployed Head of Communications Strategy". Genius!

Picking up the point about companies not using terms like Junior and Senior for age discrimination reasons, that's rubbish. At Deloitte we have Senior Consultants and Senior Managers which are, in my experience a way that the senior leadership team has introduced additional grades/time on the route to Partner to help grow the practice (revenue) without diluting the earnings per Partner.

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