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Bless me consulting for I have sinned

#1 Bless me consulting for I have sinned
29/10/2010 02:06


Ok guys I've got this problem:

I worked for Deloitte in France and have applied to Deloitte in London after completing an MSc in a university of london college.

I high school I took the international baccalaureate and did a BA in france and finished with a 2.2

Deloitte London yesterday called my former partner to ask for a reference because my IB grade is too low and the BA one as well so I don't meet their graduate program standard.

On the website Deloitte London converts an AAB in higher levels (3 silly exams) with a 38/45 on the IB (6 exams with a many orals and course works averaging over two year and an extended essay). Check the harvard website they will take you for their undergrad if you score a minimum of 39/45 and in general you can count the people that get a perfect IB score on your hands!!!

Next is the 2.2. Ok fine I was 17 in my first year on BA barely made the passing grade and that messed up the whole average for all three years.

But then I worked for Deloitte France and reached an analyst III position in the audit division and that got me into a great MSc, which I finished with distinction, and Deloitte London is still giving me crap about high school and BA.

At 19 years old I was more concentrated on drinking and partying rather than studying.

I'm sure my former boss will give me great references, as he has for the MSc, and this will most likely push my application to the interview but still I find it ridiculous that one cannot redeem himself for not having given 100% in the days where he couldn't even drive!

So you are telling me that an undergrad with a 1st meets the standard for deloitte but an postgrad student with distinction, with 2 years work experience FOR deloitte, but with low IB and BA grades doesn't????????

If that's the case I'm hopeless I'll apply for McDonalds now, at least they add value to the 'real economy' and sell a product of tangible substance and not thin air (cry cry cry)

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#2 RE: Bless me consulting for I have sinned
29/10/2010 06:36

Anon to anon (#1)

so what was the question?

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#3 RE: Bless me consulting for I have sinned
29/10/2010 06:42

buzzled to anon (#1)

at least the good thing is that you did not divulge your name above - thanks to the anonymous status of this forum.

I wonder how many people Deloitte have on their waiting list with the same details?.....worked in france, 2:2, AAB.....

Don't worry, your anon status is safe, I am just thinking out loud....

I am not sure the last sentence in your post is going to do you any favour.

I cannot unfortunately contribute to your problem as you have not actually asked any questions in relation to what you would like to get from us. Unless of course you are looking for us to concur and perhaps start a rebellion

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#4 RE: Bless me consulting for I have sinned
29/10/2010 09:11

anon to buzzled (#3)

Deloitte do seem to value A Level results more than masters degrees and experience. I have had an application to them rejected after they came back asking for more information on my A Levels (which were no better than average).

Other leading companies don't seem to have this hang up. My average A levels have never been an issue with other companies inc. other Big 4.

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#5 RE: Bless me consulting for I have sinned
29/10/2010 10:08

BoroBoy77 to anon (#4)

I managed to join Deloitte at SC level with pretty rubbish A-Levels (1 A, 2 D's, 1 E) and a 2:1 from a former polytechnic university.

This tends to suggest they valued my 6 years work experience I had before joining them.

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#6 RE: Bless me consulting for I have sinned
29/10/2010 10:14

Kelso to anon (#1)

I'm sympathetic about your situation, and can understand your frustration, however I don't agree with everything you've said.

While more attention should be given to experience and achievement gained when fully an adult (i.e. university grades and later work experience) than school grades (when one is essentially still a child), I can understand their interest in your school grades.

These days many universities are lowering their entrance grades, and courses are often 'dumbed down'. With so many students coming out of university all with what appears to be good experience and high grades it is increasingly difficult for firms to distinguish between candidates. Big firms like Deloittes are likely to have many good applicants to choose from and need something more to make a candidate stand out from the crowd.

One way of doing this is to look for candidates who not only have good university and work experience, but who show evidence of being high achievers and have a history of being achievement focussed in general. These candidates are more likely to maintain stamina and staying power and continue to focuss on achieving, even when they dont have a looming deadline (like a university final exam) or when they are working on vital but not very visible/exciting work, or when there isnt a bonus round approaching.

one way of doing this is looking for a history of achievement, going back to school days. Is the candidate inherently focussed on achievement, or only when there is a job/cold hard cash as incentive?

While many young people at 17 arent focussed on achievement and prefer to drink and party, many also manage to achieve a lot.

i dont believe you should dismiss what one can achieve at 17. For instance at 17 people are old enough to marry (in scotland) or serve their country in the armed forces. At 17 I had been at university over a year after getting straight As at school, and was opening my 3rd small business (the first two already successful).

While people shouldnt be 'punished' for their past, particularly for being a typical 17 year old and putting fun before focus, there are other ways candidates can distinguish themselves from the crowd. You can draw attention to achievements in areas outside of work such as sports, charity work etc. in your resume to make you stand out from the many many applicants who may have similar levels of university and work experience.

Good luck with your application - hope it works out.

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#7 RE: Bless me consulting for I have sinned
29/10/2010 10:46

anon to deleted (#0)

Haha buzzled you make me laugh I'm sure you are the usual arrogant b*itch.

The question is easy do you convert AAB at a-levels with e 38/45 in the IB how do those even compare??????? It's like comparing renaults with ferraris.

And second how is a 2.2 from HEC that bad (it's up there with the big ones) having finished it on time while working as well? Add on an MSc from a red brick with distinction how is it that I still don't fit Deloitte standard whereas geeks that when 18 gave up a social life to get straight As (in the ridiculous a-levels by the way) do??

We are not talking MBB we are saying Deloitte for whom I have worked for 2 years in France...

CONFUSED and probably scarred for life for low grades when 20.

p.s. Kelso if people get married at 17 good for them. Would love to see how those marriages work out.

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#8 RE: Bless me consulting for I have sinned
29/10/2010 13:00

Happy to deleted (#0)

It's bad because it's a 2:2. Everyone else has higher

I am not sure why you think that finishing your degree on time is some sort of a plus - is that not the base case? And working during the course is a ridiculous excuse - you should have either worked harder or quit the job.

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#9 RE: Bless me consulting for I have sinned
29/10/2010 22:10

Monsieur le pain to Happy (#8)

Whilst I sympathise with your situation, there is some reason behind it based on the assumption you are transferring at graduate level.

Working for Deloitte in Europe means jack sh!t in London. It's well known in the UK that Deloitte's standing in European markets doesn't allow it to recruit the top candidates at that level (as evidenced by the existence of this thread). If your experience was in Audit then it is even less relevant.

Most importantly however, the specifics of any work experience when applying at graduate level really aren't considered that strongly. (And nor should they be in my opinion.) Whether you worked at Deloitte in France or Macdonalds in France it's more about what you achieved and how you demonstrated some key competencies within it.

Whatever you think of the're up against some of the UK's brightest grads. Deloitte also place a strong emphasis on their grads having good extra curricular activities, social skills and not being the type of people who were stuck in the books all day. (More so than many other equivalent or more prestigious firms.) Believe it or not people like this exist who still had the foresight to recognise the benefits of scraping a 2.1.

I'm sure you could do the job - but there is a certain profile that the Deloitte consulting model looks for and requires. It isn't defined by work experience or masters degree and definitely not by straight A grades.

There's the reasoning...but to be honest, I like your strength of expression and suspect with some Partner intervention you'll get through the hoops fine in the end.

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#10 RE: Bless me consulting for I have sinned
29/10/2010 22:55

DCF to Monsieur le pain (#9)

Or will you?

Plemty of us here and in other decent and hlaf-decent firms were sharp enough and/or put enough work in to get the AAA-ABB and still have the social life (and back in the days before it all went modular) in sixth form... and played football, rugby, got blitzed all the way through university and still got 1sts or 2:1s. This is not willy waving, just statement of fact. I find it pretty weak that you seek to attribute your own somewhat modest academic achievements to your oh-so-rock'n'roll time in sixth form (lycee?) and university/school.

Deloitte does not require AAAA, preferably including chemistry and further maths, and a 1st from Oxford/Cambridge/Imperial/LSE. To meet its requirements you need only have some natural academic talent or to have applied yourslef; not both. It is clear that neither is applicable to you.

Dwell on the "injustice" all you like; the firm gets plenty of good applicants that it need not waste too much time on also-rans.

For all that I wouldn't be surprised if you wangle it. That would be a shame, though, when after all the time you have spent in another Deloitte firm you still feel the work adds no value. If you want something tangible, go and work in maunfacturing - and see if you, like me this year, will make your firm £3m, as I have saved this firm's clients at a 10th of the cost.

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#11 RE: Bless me consulting for I have sinned
30/10/2010 11:56

Think to DCF (#10)

Why so much discussion over Deloitte anyway? :) Its a low quality company where all sorts of low life, non ranked university, low life achievers get jobs anyway. Sure they hire few top guys and sometimes make it hard for one or two people to get in - they have to pretend sometimes to be selective in their recruitment process, but lets face it, they are rubbish and shouldn't even be referred to as consultancy.

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#12 RE: Bless me consulting for I have sinned
30/10/2010 19:16

Bothered to Think (#11)

MSc, BA, 38/45 etc. Have you considered that maybe it's down to you being French?

I'd go for Mc Donalds in Paris and work 'till you're a whole 62!

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#13 RE: Bless me consulting for I have sinned
03/11/2010 15:49

anon to Bothered (#12)

Thank you for all the feedback.

Monsieur le pain: The analyst III role was not in audit, or at least in France it would be audit but in the UK I believe it falls under consulting, but in fiscal strategy implementation and the clients were all of the UK and US law firms (Clifford Chance, A&O, Norton Rose, Withers, Lathan & Watkins, etc...). Anyhow this is besides the point.

In general, as I already mentioned, it's not the above 2.2 that worries me (especially since it's from HEC's 4-year business administration program) because I can put that low grade against a First with distinction in the MSc.

What frustrates me is that fact that Deloitte's equivalent of a mere AAB at A-levels is a 38/45 at the International Baccalaureate (as already stated with a 39/45 one eligible to apply for Harvard's BA). This grade, according to Deloitte's HR, is what is hurting my application.

Second thing is that I landed an interview two days ago with Bain & Company, apparently all they care about is the MSc and the work experience, so it seems quite strange to ge through to Bain, without reccomendations, and not Deloitte.

This is what is confusing me.

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