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revealing salary

 
#1 revealing salary
25/03/2010 16:23

anon

looking through threads here it seems to be advised not to reveal salary when applying for new role but what do you do if you are filling out an online application and salary is required. The options are either to reveal salary or lie, and I wouldn't want to do the latter.

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#2 RE: revealing salary
25/03/2010 16:52

anon to anon (#1)

Typical HR department trying to bully you into giving them the upper hand.

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#3 RE: revealing salary
25/03/2010 18:11

Mars A Day to anon (#2)

Next thing you know they'll be wanting to know your name, where you work, even why you want to join their company! How dare they!

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#4 RE: revealing salary
25/03/2010 20:00

anon to Mars A Day (#3)

Also, when you buy a house, I suggest that you tell the estate agent exactly how much mortgage you've been approved for.

Then, later, when you go to buy a car, do make sure you tell the car salesman exactly how much savings you have and your exact salary.

My motto with this kind of stuff is "Ask a personal question... don't be surprised if you get a bull5hit answer".

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#5 RE: revealing salary
26/03/2010 09:48

Big Consultant to anon (#4)

Thank you anons, don't mind Mars. Why should I provide you with details to help you in bargaining when we are about to negotiate?

Would they also tell you how much the last post holder was earning to help your negotiations? Sometimes some do not even give a salary range and just say "Competitive".

It is just pure bullying tactics.

Salary negotiations should be based on (1) what value they place on your experience and skills relative to the role and responsibilities, mixed with (2) how much is expected of you in the role based on level of responsibility you are likely to be allocated.

My advice for such bullying: LIE, LIE, LIE, LIE, LIE, LIE, LIE, LIE, LIE, LIE, LIE, LIE, LIE, LIE, LIE, LIE, LIE, LIE, LIE

And your P45 was eaten by the cat.

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#6 RE: revealing salary
26/03/2010 13:07

risky to Big Consultant (#5)

Sounds risky - what happens when your new firm obtains a reference from your old firm stating the length of your employment and salary?

I was under the impression this is common practice after offer.

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#7 RE: revealing salary
26/03/2010 13:34

Big Consultant to risky (#6)

Some of the firms I have worked for to my knowledge (told by HR girl) don't reveal salaries even when requested to avoid any form of legal responsibilities.

I don't know how widespread that stance is amongst other firms.

That said, if they want to spend another £5-15K or so to start a new recruitment process rather than pay me widen the range of my worth (extra £5-7K or so, I am not advocating going beyond the range for the role), while the work is not being done during the search then good luck to them.

They might not want a liar, neither do I want to work for a company that I know shafted me on pay.

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#8 RE: revealing salary
26/03/2010 13:54

anon again to Big Consultant (#7)

I've thought of a solution, if forced to give a number I'll quote my salary to include my flex benefits package which adds 10K, so accurate info in a round about way

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#9 RE: revealing salary
26/03/2010 14:00

Big Consultant to Big Consultant (#7)

*pay me within the range

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#10 RE: revealing salary
26/03/2010 14:26

Kas to Big Consultant (#9)

I don't think its a good idea to lie to a prospective employer. The HR does ask for a P45 when you move into a new firm. If a firm can't value you, you shouldn't join it!

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#11 RE: revealing salary
26/03/2010 18:56

anon to anon again (#8)

"I've thought of a solution, if forced to give a number I'll quote my salary to include my flex benefits package which adds 10K, so accurate info in a round about way"

No, that's called lying if you say that's your salary. If you quote your total package to include your flex benefits then that would be more appropriate.

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#12 RE: revealing salary
27/03/2010 18:38

someguy to anon (#11)

not again? I made all my points on t'other thread (62196) - always put off salary discussion until an offer is on the table. even then, discuss the market value of the role being offered not the one you're currently doing.

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#13 RE: revealing salary
29/03/2010 10:10

anon again to someguy (#12)

someguy, the point is that the on-line tool does not allow me to submit an application without putting a numerical figure into the current salary box, so no figure = no application.

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#14 RE: revealing salary
29/03/2010 11:31

someguy to anon again (#13)

OP - is a number range possible? is this a direct application or a recruiter's website? Can you put in £0 or £1 (or alternatively £999999)? Is there a little tick box at the end stating I swear on my firstborn that this information is true to the best of my ability so help me god?

Tough tits. You (and your employer) are under no legal obligation to reveal salary and other protected information when applying for a job. Put nine nines in there and explain your position if you get past their screening robot.

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#15 RE: revealing salary
29/03/2010 11:50

someguy to someguy (#14)

My last answer may construed as aggressive or unhelpful so...

if the field allows text, put in "market rate" or "competitive" etc.

if the field only allows numbers, put in 1 or 0. explain (if you wish to) in another field that your salary is within market rate.

know your rights with regards to protected information under the DPA. I wouldn't tell even co-workers my salary, why should I tell some automated form on an unsecure website? The one time I would do this is for a credit check - and even then I would submit a range if possible.

simples!

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#16 RE: revealing salary
29/03/2010 18:16

Recruiter too to someguy (#15)

Three things

1) this is replicating a thread ”recruiters: what impresses you” with incidentally an equally obtuse, paranoid and cynical bunch of consultants

2) someone was convicted recently of fraud for doing just what was being recommended above: “Obtaining a Pecuniary Advantage by Deception” and “Fraud by False Representation”. So probably best not eh?

3) If someone wanting me to help them find a job won’t tell me their salary then fine. I know exactly where he/she is coming from and can make a decision on my willingness to do so or whether this has been torpedoed by their potential for cynicism and lack of trust. If they lie and this comes out later in the process with a potential employer then we just have to hope the employer doesn’t think less of them

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#17 RE: revealing salary
29/03/2010 19:58

fisher to Recruiter too (#16)

Recruiter too raises the obvious question as to whether refusing to declare your salary will reduce the willingness of that recruiter to find you a position. Seen as obstructive/suspicious, etc.)

What would be the response if I told the recruiter my salary but told them I would prefer that it not to be passed to third parties (listing some fair reasons already discussed).

Would recruiters respect my wishes given the sensitivity of the info? Whilst not removing the risk that the recruiter doesn't put you forward for some higher paid jobs - it would strengthen your negotiating position.

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#18 RE: revealing salary
30/03/2010 08:58

anon to fisher (#17)

No, if you reveal salary, you will be instantly pigeonholed.

Mud sticks.

If you're looking for a new job, you probably don't want your current role (assuming you feel under-paid) to hold you back. Maybe you liked the people you worked with and accepted less pay in exchange for a good working environment? There are many reasons why you may be paid less than your maximum market rate. However, recruiters simply assume that all jobs are the same and the only differentiating factors are a) pay and b) skills required.

You've GOT to find a way of dealing with the inevitable "So what package are you currently on?" question that they will so arrogantly ask.

The way I think about it is that it's like going to a car garage to have a browse, but having some pushy salesman shove a finance agreement in front of you and start running credit checks before you've even decided whether you like the cars on offer.

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#19 RE: revealing salary
30/03/2010 10:56

someguy to anon (#18)

Recruiter too - Obtuse, paranoid and cynical? Tell us what you really think! :)

Someone prosecuted for fraud for putting "market rate" on their application form? Oooh. Do tell. I am not advocating putting a Harvard MBA on your CV or faking experience to get an NHS manager's job if those are the two fraud cases you're thinking about. Putting 1 or 0 on an internet form is about as far from "obtaining pecuniary advantage through deception" as I can imagine.

Try again. There are two separate issues here to do with trust (I absolutely think you should be upfront with a recruiter, but this is a FORM we're talking about here) and negotiation (how much power are you taking away from the candidate by forcing them to reveal their salary?) The OP's situation is clearly unacceptable from a candidate's POV. Not only are you taking away a major bargaining point but you are also pigeonholing them into a salary bracket. This all happens even before you've spoken to anyone. If the aim of the form is to get your qualification in front of a human being, the salary figure in NO WAY helps the candidate.

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#20 RE: revealing salary
30/03/2010 18:32

Derek to someguy (#19)

someguy sums it up well - on this forum, recruiters always counsel that applicants are totally straight with both recruitment consultants and prosepective employers.

In negotiation terms, asking for salary on an electronic form is a "ploy", a way of giving the company an advantage. Most good recruiting companies tell their clients what sort of base salary is sought by applicants and, in my experience, they will tell them this information, regardless of whether you ask them not to or not.

If there was a "perfect market", whereby everyone had access to all the information all the time, you could have a high degree of certainty that you would realise the highest possible salary. As it is, I cannot see any difference between negotiating for a salary and for anything else, e.g. a car.

It is always better not to lie but remember you are under no (legal) obligation to pass on your P45 to a new employer, regardless of the fact that many people on this forum will tell you different.

Recruiter too - you say "someone was convicted recently of fraud for doing just what was being recommended above" - can you provide a link to this please? I often see this cited on this forum but, so far, it would seem to be an urban myth.

Derek

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