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People leaving after 2 years?

 
#1 People leaving after 2 years?
02/11/2009 18:56

Hi

Why are all the good people leaving....after they make Consultant? What sort of Industry roles open up after 2 years as an Analyst?

I would personally like to stick around! Surely things like getting staffed on great projects gets easier with time?

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#2 RE: People leaving after 2 years?
03/11/2009 15:00

bto to Hi (#1)

Related to leaving consulting after 2-3 years, what are people's opinions of the BT fast track leadership programme?

They state that participants generally have a post graduate qualification (CIMA, MBA, Prince 2 (!) but the salary in London is only given as 40-45k?!

Does anyone have any insight in to the calibre of people, experiences or the exit opportunities after 3 years?

I have 2.5y experience in a big4 consulting firm and wonder if this will give me the useful industry depth I'd like?

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#3 RE: People leaving after 2 years?
03/11/2009 15:50

Mars A Day to Hi (#1)

I suspect it takes about 2 years for those who are not committed to consultancy to realise that they do not feel sufficiently attracted by the prospects to suffer the extensive travel, demanding hours and line managers etc. Also I think many look to leave around this time as they think they have enough experience to actually move out of MC without having to start from scratch. Banking tends to have a similar breaking point but as the expected career lifespan of a banker is generally much shorter (you could, until recently, out earn a Partner in a consulting firm at VP level or even Associate level in a good banking job) so a banker feeling the crisis at 2 - 3 years can conclude they should be able to retire early anyway. Many bankers have left the industry altogether, and I suspect the same will be happening in MC anyway - an exodus of those who take a lesson from the recession and the near meltdown of global financial infrastructure and conclude it's not all really what it was meant to me. Priorities change.

As regards the BT leadership scheme, I would assume - on that money - they are either attracting people with Master degrees but not top MBAs, and of course it is designed to identify and groom the leaders of the business. The fact that as an organisation BT needs a 3 week conference to conclude the CEO really should tie his shoelaces to avoid falling over (and instigating a global conclave of Health & Safety in the process) is by the by. They need to train you to look left and right at the same time, to ensure that the left hand does not know what the right is doing. Hence you take a hit on the cash to complete the programme.

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#4 RE: People leaving after 2 years?
03/11/2009 16:01

ex-BT to Mars A Day (#3)

DO NOT JOIN THAT BT PROGRAMME ... AT ALL COSTS

As an ex-BT employee, I can tell you that the programme (as with most of BTs roles) is not what it's cracked up to be. Despite what it says on the tin, you'll be assigned to tasks no better than a fresh (i.e. just joined last month) graduate.

Hiring managers won't know what to do with you, there is a fight for good roles (its common for you to be on the bench for 8+ months) and morale is very very very very low.

You'll most likely be stuck in BT Centre on a flexidesk (C2?), not knowing anybody around you and wondering where your life went wrong.

The only reason to take this job is if you're over 6 months behind bill payments or you have loan sharks about to break your legs.

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#5 RE: People leaving after 2 years?
03/11/2009 16:17

Mars A Day to ex-BT (#4)

What ex-BT is trying express is that the BT Leadershit Programme is almost as bad a a career in recruitment.

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#6 RE: People leaving after 2 years?
03/11/2009 17:52

Mr Cool to Mars A Day (#5)

Mars - bad day at the office?

Like the "leadershit program" crack though - I'm assuming it was not a typo....

However my favourite remains "BT is simply bull$hit without the content"

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#7 RE: People leaving after 2 years?
05/11/2009 09:37

Ex BT Guy to ex-BT (#4)

Just to underline this once and for all - do not join BT in any capacity!!!!! Please think about what you are doing here and come to your senses before you resign any chance of a consulting career to the bin.

You will be under utilised, never challenged (unless you see a challenge as being how to change the channel on daytime TV), demoralised, abandoned, and left socially crippled by years of working in isolation.

If your only goal in life is to collect your cash at the end of each month and then count the days to the next month end, BT is the place for you

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#8 RE: People leaving after 2 years?
05/11/2009 11:39

Bloggsy to Ex BT Guy (#7)

You make it sound so appealing.

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#9 RE: People leaving after 2 years?
05/11/2009 13:20

Anon to Bloggsy (#8)

So if not BT, then where are people going after 2 years?

And is 2 years a good time to leave and gain industry experience if you intend to return to consulting in 3-5 years time?

Is it easier to deepen your skills in an area outside of consulting than it is at the junior grades??

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#10 RE: People leaving after 2 years?
05/11/2009 17:10

Mars A Day to Anon (#9)

Seriously, if you want to return to consulting at a later date, you need more than 2 years initial experience - otherwise you have left with little more than the basics, and will have a hard time justifying returning to a consultancy at a more senior level. If you want to switch between MC and industry (and have the option to go back) best to do so with at least some experience of leading projects or workstreams.

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#11 RE: People leaving after 2 years?
06/11/2009 10:16

Just a though to Mars A Day (#10)

Tosh...absolutely don't agree. You can certainly return to consultancy at a later date. Really depends on what you do inbetween i.e. if you enter industry and develop deep specific expertise in a particular field role....remember what the hell do we consultants do: We do work for industry albeit via consultancy!!! Sometimes we forget that!! At my firm we recruit both people who have always been in the consultancy domain and those who have come from industry.

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#12 RE: People leaving after 2 years?
06/11/2009 10:23

Mars A Day to Just a though (#11)

Call it tosh if you want: at 2 years experience in MC you have learnt to do NOTHING. So exactly what are you bringing back with you? If you move to industry after just 2 years in MC you will struggle to convince anyone a) you really want to return to consultancy and b) have anything to offer.

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#13 RE: People leaving after 2 years?
06/11/2009 10:51

Just a thought to Mars A Day (#12)

Situation: Candidate leaves MC after 2 years to enter industry..as I said.."if you enter industry and develop deep specific expertise in a particular field role" - expertise that would take a number of years to acheive. You definitely can return to MC. This is not to say that everyone can do this in the same light that not everyone that has a good degree gets their ideal (note not good..ideal) job.

It's been done..

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#14 RE: People leaving after 2 years?
06/11/2009 13:11

Mars A Day to Just a thought (#13)

The problem with doing that is that you return as a SME rather than in a more senior line position, which I assume is what would be intended. If you cannot lead or sell projects then you will struggle to return to MC at a higher grade than where you left, and being an SME leaves you open to being clipped quickly if you find yourself on the bench.

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#15 RE: People leaving after 2 years?
06/11/2009 13:46

Anon to Mars A Day (#14)

Both fair points.

I agree that those who join consulting with only deep industry experience (whilst not employed as SME's as such) do struggle with wider consulting projects and limit their ability to penetrate cross function/industry.

However, the fact they are able to join consulting at all really answers the basic original question. The real question, eluded to already, lies in whether 2 years consulting experience is enough to be able to provide you with the wider skills required to sell and lead projects which don't lie exclusively in your industry area.

Mars I imagine would suggest not.

Final point, don't underestimate the 'consulting skills' gained in the first 2 years that those joining from industry at senior levels just don't seem to have gained.

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#16 RE: People leaving after 2 years?
12/11/2009 17:40

Jim to Mars A Day (#14)

Here's a question for MaD then - I have been for a number of interviews recently as I am trying to get back into work after CR and I am constantly being told how good I am as a general consultant but sorry old bean, you haven't the deep levels of expertise that we require. The reason I don't have any deep levels of expertise in anything is that in my consulting career I have done everything and anything to keep myself off the bench and be a value generating asset for the firms I work for.

Now, instead of being a strength, this is seen as a weakness as the market demands more specific experience. So, how am I to overcome this if in your opinion having SME status leads to "being clipped quickly"?

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#17 RE: People leaving after 2 years?
12/11/2009 17:45

R2D2 to Jim (#16)

Actually a very pertinent question Jim - does anyone have a view of whether the job market is open only now to SME's or is there still a need for more broad based consulting skilled people?

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#18 RE: People leaving after 2 years?
12/11/2009 18:08

Mars A Day to Jim (#16)

Jim this phenomenon you are referrring to is a direct symptom of the contraction in the market, and if you look closely at what is happening this is starting - just starting - to tip back the other way again. What skews the picture also is that there are a plethora of niche firms growing up which until the recession hit did not have the profile they do now; as they kept hiring in very small numbers througout the crisis they gain more prominence and distort the overall hiring picture. Look at it this way - if the generalist consultant track was over, MBB would go bust in a short space of time (and no signs that will happen). Ultimately the whole thing will revert to what MC is essentially all about - hired intellectual firepower which provides a flexible resource for an overstretched client.

In the meantime, drill into your experience to date and you should be able to draw out common threads of experience - perhaps you have done a number of CRM projects which might have been in FS one time, in oil a year later, for example - pull these together to convey blocks of experience. Bear in mind Jim the market is recovering but we are not back yet, so when you are finding it hard to get through the door its the market that is dictating this, not you as an individual - you cannot swim against the tide, although a rising one floats all boats. Also try to go through your networks rather than just advertised roles - there is a lot of hiring which carries on purely around value creation - if you can get an intro to a company which could create some manner of revenue around what you bring with you, you're in!

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