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Frustration with Job Applications and Agencies

 
#1 Frustration with Job Applications and Agencies
17/08/2009 19:01

Vellendra Sannasy

I was made redundant by Accenture in Dec and struggling to find a new job ever since. I am so dis-illusioned by my situation after working for both PwC and Accenture with a total of 8 years consulting experience. More frustrating is when you get automated emails from agents advertising for consulting positions, saying ''unfortunately you are not a close enough match for our client's needs''. That is insulting in my opinion and disrespectful to someone who has amassed considerable experience with global consulting outfits. I am so tired of this and because my entire working life has been in consulting, finding it impossible to break into an in-house role in industry... Totally dis-illusioned right now.

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#2 RE: Frustration with Job Applications and Agencies
18/08/2009 14:23

Ruth Bannister to Vellendra Sannasy (#1)

Hmmm. Depends on the role - they may be looking for more than one of you, they may be stockpiling in preparation for a recruitment freeze being lifted, they may still be waiting on a finalk decision as to you or even the role from someone senior sat on a beach somewhere - it really does depend o

n the company i'm afraid!

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#3 RE: Frustration with Job Applications and Agencies
18/08/2009 15:07

Cannot understood recruitment agents to Ruth Bannister (#2)

Can any recruitment agent please tell me the advantage of 'collecting' CVs? If a role comes after 3 months (say), would those CVs still be of any use? What if the applicants' circumstances change in that period? Why can't the agents ask for the latest CV from the right candidate at the right time for any given role?

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#4 RE: Frustration with Job Applications and Agencies
18/08/2009 15:48

Anon to deleted (#0)

Possibly a positive sign of the market - a couple of recruiters prepared to post here under their real names? And they both appear to exist (check them out on LinkedIn)

Thanks guys

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#5 RE: Frustration with Job Applications and Agencies
18/08/2009 15:57

anon to deleted (#0)

definitely make use of places like linkedin and iprofile if you aren't already.

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#6 RE: Frustration with Job Applications and Agencies
18/08/2009 16:10

Anon to deleted (#0)

iprofile - hadn't heard of it but looks interesting.

Would any recruiters be willing to suggest to us if they use it?

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#7 RE: Frustration with Job Applications and Agencies
18/08/2009 16:39

Ruth Bannister to Anon (#6)

I use linked in a lot, but also have a pretty good knowledge of the market so use refferals a lot too. not aware of this iprofile thing (so will investigate now).

And i definately exist. And have real roles to recruit for. And tell you if you are not suitable otherwise end up being stalked (usually by people who want to get into MC but have not got a hope in hell......)

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#8 RE: Frustration with Job Applications and Agencies
18/08/2009 19:53

recently got a job to Ruth Bannister (#7)

That sounds like the standard reject letter that has been sent to the other 195 applicants that did not get to interview.

Alternatively it does seem that recruiters are looking for an exact fit for a specific role so it may well be true that you are not close enough.

That said I am amazed to see some companies advertising the same role month after month yet apparently not finding anyone with a close enough fit.

BTW I was in same position as you until recently. Have top academics and solid experience with leading brands. Yet I had 6 months without only two interviews. This is a feature of the current job market. Learn to relax and enjoy some time off.

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#9 RE: Frustration with Job Applications and Agencies
19/08/2009 09:24

Ruth B to anon (#5)

I've looked into iprofile briefly and it appears to be more of a dating site - with options such ad asian babes, christian dating and herpes dating. I would nto reccomend it

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#10 RE: Frustration with Job Applications and Agencies
19/08/2009 09:58

Anon to Ruth B (#9)

Ruth

I am into Asian babes. Should I list this under 'Hobbies' on my CV? Would the Big 4 be interested?

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#11 RE: Frustration with Job Applications and Agencies
19/08/2009 10:30

Secret Admirer to Anon (#10)

I find Ruth hot. Is it unprofessional of me to write this in a public forum?

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#12 RE: Frustration with Job Applications and Agencies
19/08/2009 13:39

Anon to Vellendra Sannasy (#1)

Provided you didn't leave PwC on bad terms, why don't you try applying there again?

PIC is recruiting at the moment. If you still have any contacts inside it might be worth reaching out to them.

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#13 RE: Frustration with Job Applications and Agencies
19/08/2009 14:06

ruth b to Secret Admirer (#11)

Aw, thank you secret admirer! *blushes*

I don's suppose you are a recruiting manager? <puts on lipstick, heels> its a tough market out there!

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#14 RE: Frustration with Job Applications and Agencies
19/08/2009 15:12

Mars A Day to ruth b (#13)

Yawn. Thanks for the selt promotion Ruth - business must be tough.

Vallendra I suspect the secret behind your failiure to land a role so far is in your attitude: rejection being (and I quote) 'insulting in my opinion and disrespectful to someone who has amassed considerable experience with global consulting outfits'. Who cares? If you meet the requirement you'll get called, but presently clients want precise fits with mandates. If that isn't you then it won't happen, and no one is impressed by 8 years in global consulting outfits by the way: I would be impressed with 8 years of accomplishment and value creation, yes, but not the fact that you have managed to hold down jobs for 8 years. Maybe you need to rethink your approach.

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#15 RE: Frustration with Job Applications and Agencies
20/08/2009 12:52

HC Con to Mars A Day (#14)

Vellendra

Although it's difficult, don't take the standard rejection e-mails personally. Both agents and employers are inundated with applicants in this market and just can't come back personally to each response. As has been said, unless you hit the spec perfectly you won't get through right now.

If I can offer some advice, you mention you're looking for in-house roles. Assume you mean in-house HR roles. If so, you may want to look at your CV (I looked you up on Linkedin). A lot of what you state there around Bus Dev etc is relevant to Consulting but not at all to in-house. Also, stress the skills that are transferable to in-house line roles rather than Consulting jobs.

Another option, if you want to stay with the Change Management aspects within HC, is to look to the interim market for client companies going through change. If they are not engaging one of your ex-employers they sometimes engage change people for specific projects. I did this a few years ago and each client ended up offering me a job at the end of the assignment.

Just a thought.

It is tough out there though but keep trying.

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#16 RE: Frustration with Job Applications and Agencies
20/08/2009 12:54

HC Con to HC Con (#15)

PS - is it me or does Mars seem a little snippy today?

What's up Mars.......threatened by a new recruiter on your turf or is your own job hunt not going so well?

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#17 RE: Frustration with Job Applications and Agencies
20/08/2009 14:04

anon to Ruth B (#9)

"I've looked into iprofile briefly and it appears to be more of a dating site - with options such ad asian babes, christian dating and herpes dating. I would nto reccomend it"

What are you talking about?

http://www.iprofile.org/ is the site address and is clealry a job hunting site.

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#18 RE: Frustration with Job Applications and Agencies
20/08/2009 14:23

Mars A Day to HC Con (#16)

threatened by a new recruiter on my turf (as you call it)? Not at all. Seen them come and go.

Job hunt not going well? On the contrary, a week in and have 6 interviews lined up while working full time (which will be tricky to hide but hey ho).

Snippy? Occasionally. Must be the weather.

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#19 RE: Frustration with Job Applications and Agencies
20/08/2009 15:22

HC Con to Mars A Day (#18)

Mars - Good for you. Are you interviewing with Consulting Point at all?

They are always inundated with roles so I'm sure they'd be interested.

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#20 RE: Frustration with Job Applications and Agencies
20/08/2009 15:39

Mars A Day to HC Con (#19)

Good to see you have a sense of humour HC Con.

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#21 RE: Frustration with Job Applications and Agencies
20/08/2009 15:40

HC Con to Mars A Day (#18)

Mars - Good for you. Are you interviewing with Consulting Point at all?

They are always inundated with roles so I'm sure they'd be interested.

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#22 RE: Frustration with Job Applications and Agencies
20/08/2009 18:24

Vellendra Sannasy to Anon (#12)

Anon - do you have any good contacts at PIC?

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#23 RE: Frustration with Job Applications and Agencies
18/09/2009 23:15

Onan to Vellendra Sannasy (#22)

I would like to work for Consulting Point. Do you reckon i have a chance? I am a good guy, hire me.

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#24 RE: Frustration with Job Applications and Agencies
19/09/2009 21:05

Jobseeker to Vellendra Sannasy (#1)

I have to say I'm in exactly the same position. Having left a few months ago with so many years with the firm, I didn't realise the IT job market would be so tough. A few agents have contacted me after 40-50 odd applications, but they normally don't lead anywhere.

Recent reports on job prospects paint a positive outlook on the UK Services sector (accounting, finance etc), but when you dig deeper jobs in the IT sector are still falling.

I'm finding it hard to gauge how tough it really is out there - is it just my CV/interview skills, or is it really a bloodbath out there with 300 applicants for every position.

Would love to hear from any agents out there on their perspective.

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#25 RE: Frustration with Job Applications and Agencies
20/09/2009 11:33

comfortably in a job to Jobseeker (#24)

I was made redundant earlier this year and had the same experience. No interviews for months.

I had reached the point where I felt the chances of reentering employment at all were slim.....and I have a significant track record of business achievements at senior level and very good academics.

I now have an interim role and I think this is the new norm - many people I know have done this out of necessity rather than active choice.

One thing that does strike me is how unaware the permies are of the job market. In general they are not actively looking for new jobs and have no idea how bad it is.

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#26 RE: Frustration with Job Applications and Agencies
06/10/2009 09:52

Recent Hire to Jobseeker (#24)

The job market is tough out there, and I agree with the above post that most permies not actively looking for work don't realise how difficult the market is.

The problem is the shear number of applicants out there, so despite how good your skills and experience may be working for top tier consulting firms, you're lost in a sea of desperate jobseekers. And agencies are usually useless at sifting the good from the bad, and may only review the first 10 candidates from a pile of 200.

So the problem you face when taking up a redundancy is falling into that black hole of 7.8% unemployment. In a growing economy this wouldn't be too bad for high calibre consultants, but given firms are still letting people go it's hard to jump out of that hole and stand out. Also bear in mind that there are other equally or better skilled consultants who you're competing against.

That being said, things aren't all that bad. As with the last few posters I've also been on the job market for the past few months and only recently landed a role after my very first (yes - one and only) interview (well after the phone interview of course). It goes to show how crap agencies can be in identifying talent. The tough part is often getting past the agency to ensure they put you forward in the first place.

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#27 RE: Frustration with Job Applications and Agencies
06/10/2009 10:09

update to Recent Hire (#26)

Not sure what everyone else is experiencing, but there certainly seems to be a small surge in recruiting activities in the past few weeks. I'm actually being contacted by agencies for a change, instead of having to hound them down.

Talked to one agent and they mentioned Sept/Oct often see's a surge in open roles when people come back from summer holidays, before dying down again in Nov/Dec during the christmas break. So I suggest making the most of this window while you can.

Also heard a large number of partners/executives at one of the larger consulting firms are being let go. Potential opportunity to start a new practice? Anyone else with some entrepreneurial spirit interested?

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#28 RE: Frustration with Job Applications and Agencies
07/10/2009 15:27

Jo to Recent Hire (#26)

Last week I had an interview with a recruiter for a job as continuous improvement manager within a large manufacturing company. Working as an internal consultant I thought this would be an excellent opportunity to move on. He told me that I was 1 out of 117 applicants. He interviewed in total 15 candidates and this morning he called me to tell me that I was not short listed because I was over qualified......????....

it is tough out there.

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#29 RE: Frustration with Job Applications and Agencies
07/10/2009 16:17

Ownbacker to Vellendra Sannasy (#1)

I am interested in ideas to get revenge on shoddy recruiters. Biggest sins:

(1) Aimlessly collecting CV's whilst elevating expectations

(2) Lies ...damned lies

(3) Disrespect to candidates and clients

(4) Not understanding that candidates become clients

I have yet to find a decent agent either as a candidate or a client. Some are passable but let me down in some way or another later on.

I like the idea of LinkedIn and dream that one day we might be able to use such to bypass agents altogther!

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#30 RE: Frustration with Job Applications and Agencies
08/10/2009 22:39

Bob to Ownbacker (#29)

Yes - Agents are a mixed bag and it's important to find one that will look out for your interests. I've been methodical in my job search in noting down the names and companies of each agent and how responsive, helpful and useful they were. That way I don't bother applying for positions with the ones I've blacklisted.

Also I do a lot of resourcing/recruiting, so when the tables turn and agents contact me about candidates they have, I will know which companies I'll be willing to deal with. Karma.

On another note, I have considered creating a new website that allows job seekers to list agents, their specialisation, client list, and then rank/rate them. A good channel for frustrated job seekers to vent, and weed out the dodgy agents from ones that are good.

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#31 RE: Frustration with Job Applications and Agencies
16/10/2009 23:07

impressed to Bob (#30)

Excellent idea Bob. please let us know if you do get a website up and running. although i'm not job hunting right this second, I would certainly be happy to rate / rank my past experiences.

I think what gets me going the most about recruiters are the lies they tell that only an idiot would believe. It's insulting to one's intelligence and demonstrates they are seriously lacking an understanding of their clients.

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#32 RE: Frustration with Job Applications and Agencies
16/10/2009 23:10

impressed to impressed (#31)

Forgot to give a prime example - Please let me know what other jobs you've applied to so that we will not duplicate.

If you're putting a job in front of me that I've already applied to - I'll tell you! If you're trying to hit me up for possible leads (and therefore increase my competition for the role) then forget about it!

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