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Is PA the cheapest?

 
#1 Is PA the cheapest?
22/07/2009 16:42

nonameleft

I can't believe many other consultancies are offering statutory minimum to those being made redundant.

That's £350 per year above 2!!!!

Nothing if less than 2!!!!

What are others offering?

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#2 RE: Is PA the cheapest?
22/07/2009 16:52

BG to nonameleft (#1)

4.5 months minimum.

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#3 RE: Is PA the cheapest?
22/07/2009 16:54

Beggars belief to nonameleft (#1)

I haven't heard of any cheaper - interested to hear what the ACN folk think.

Amazed that PA's Board didn't think through the reputational damage of this.

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#4 RE: Is PA the cheapest?
22/07/2009 20:23

Mr Cool to Beggars belief (#3)

I'm not in any way condoning PA's decision, but this will have very little impact on their reputation with clients, many of whom will have similar policies.

As for future hires - it is unlikely that anyone will remember in a few years time - besides who considers redundancy policy when they join a consultancy?

Perhaps the only area of damage will that those who are paid off will not be positive alumni (often a source of work for other firms)

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#5 RE: Is PA the cheapest?
22/07/2009 20:35

Mr Tickle to Mr Cool (#4)

The greatest damage will be the morale of those who remain. And the damage that will do to PA. A crystal clear message has been received about how employees are valued in this "employee-owned" firm. I'm sure many will make voluntary choices as soon as they are able to - which may not be for a while - to places where they are valued. Of course, we're in a recession, redundancies happen and it's never good - but the way this process has been handled has been shameful and embarassing. Can PA now sell organisational change with a straight face, or without a red face?

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#6 RE: Is PA the cheapest?
22/07/2009 21:31

Mr Cool to Mr Tickle (#5)

Good points Mr Tickle - If I was any good and at PA ( to be honest I'm neither) I'd be lining up a move asap. I couldn't take the risk that through no fault of my own (can't all be deadwood caught up in this) I'd find myself adrift with less than a months basic salary. Even excellent candidates need to allow three months from CV submission to starting work - and another 30-45 days for the paycheck to arrive.

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#7 RE: Is PA the cheapest?
22/07/2009 22:16

Mr Pink lady to Mr Cool (#6)

Agree with Mr Tickle that this will have little impact on our clients. It's a bit like the USB stick incident - clients didn't even notice it or were not interested. Only other consultancies seemed to notice and it certainly had no impact on 08 profits.

Similarly with redundancy it will impact PA's repuation with potential candidates and also internally. I know many people are quite disgusted by the hamfisted way it has been handled and predict an exodus when things pick up.

Oh, and Mr Tickle - do we do organisational change?!

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#8 RE: Is PA the cheapest?
23/07/2009 13:14

BOPper to Mr Pink lady (#7)

Yet another fine mess from our lovely partners. They are now proposing a range of redundancy plans, depending on how much they like you.

What an inspirational leadership style!

No wonder we keep losing market share. Anyone who thinks the memory stick has not hurt PA’s credibility in the market is fooling themselves. This is why we have won very little public sector business in the past 12 months, when everyone else has taken advantage of New Labour’s spending splurge.

Three people to be made redundant in BOP, which is a lot fewer than I feared. The pipeline is looking very weak though, so I’d say this wont be the last round of cuts this Summer.

Pay cuts are now also being considered by our senior partners. Obviously not for them, but for the rest of us.

Do these guys have no shame?

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#9 RE: Is PA the cheapest?
23/07/2009 15:27

Mr Accident While At Work? Call 0800 xxx to BOPper (#8)

Quote - "They are now proposing a range of redundancy plans, depending on how much they like you."

Really? - then we'll see them in court in the next six months. Completely illegal.

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#10 RE: Is PA the cheapest?
23/07/2009 19:46

bubbles to Mr Accident While At Work? Call 0800 xxx (#9)

Cheap and nasty. Wouldn't have expected anything else.

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#11 RE: Is PA the cheapest?
23/07/2009 20:57

Bothered to bubbles (#10)

Why are people complaining? Redundancy is a good thing - clears out the dead wood and increases the chances of those high performers getting promotions/payrises.

If you get made redudant then generally your in the bottom 25% of the company. You obviously dont have the ability of your peers, and are bringing the company down. You should be happy with a payoff (however small), realistically you should pay back your employer for being a poor performer.

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#12 RE: Is PA the cheapest?
23/07/2009 20:57

PAValuedEmployee to bubbles (#10)

Pretty poor isn't it. A decision made by people who lack sense, empathy and the long term view. If PA was fending off bakrupcy then staff would accept it, but they doing OK (though below budget).

Given they spent loads a few years ago in a desperate attempt to grow and didn't grow by much. Assuming things pick up they're going to be throwing more money down the drain to attract new people. Weird that they've not tried to avoid this by encouraging sabaticals, additional holiday etc.

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#13 RE: Is PA the cheapest?
23/07/2009 21:05

Bothered to deleted (#0)

Grabs his hat and walks - for his terrible grammar!

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#14 RE: Is PA the cheapest?
23/07/2009 21:50

anonB to Bothered (#13)

Hmm Bothered really is an enlightened person - nice that they think it's ok to sack colleagues on frankly disgusting terms when the firm is cash/asset rich with no debts! The bottom 25% Bothered refers to would have been removed via the performance management process.

Those that will be ejected via the upcoming cull will have actually contributed to putting PA in this strong financial position. What part of you thinks it's ok to fire these people with a minimal payoff in a rubbish job market?!

I can only assume Bothered speaks on behalf of the Board...

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#15 RE: Is PA the cheapest?
23/07/2009 22:09

Anon to anonB (#14)

Once the company gets rid of the bottom 25%, should they then repeat the exercise in order to get rid of the new bottom 25%? And then do it again and again and again so as to continually increase the quality of their staff pool (presumably until only 1 person remains)? The truth is, there will always be a bottom 25% so long as there are more than 4 people in the company.

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#16 RE: Is PA the cheapest?
23/07/2009 22:29

Bothered to Anon (#15)

Bothered does not speak from the board!

Sacking - no! Its redundancy.

What everyone doesnt seem to understand is that PA Consulting are a business. They are here to make Profit. Maybe they do have a large pot of cash, but why should they delve into that to pay the wages of poor performers.

As for reducing the bottom 25% until 1 person. Thats not what I said. You reduce the poor performers until supply meets demand (give or take a sligh margin).

If you dont understand what PA are trying to achieve - you shouldnt be working for them!

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#17 RE: Is PA the cheapest?
24/07/2009 07:43

anonB to Bothered (#16)

Yes I think we are able to understand that PA is a business - it would be extremely difficult to confuse PA's penny pinching approach with anything else.

However do not use the excuse of 'it's a business' to treat people badly. Good business can include values such as loyalty, respect for leadership etc. The 'Consultation' process is sadly showing poor leadership and complete disregard for loyalty or for the contribution that all employees have made to the firm.

Unfortunately employee ownership has not safeguarded any of the values that PA has sought to promote as the Board have determined these values aren't worth upholding...

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#18 RE: Is PA the cheapest?
24/07/2009 08:46

Wowsa to anonB (#17)

Wow !! Has business tanked so badly for PA that they are now talking about a 25% headcount cut, on top of "temporary" pay reductions?

Sounds like PA won't be in business for much longer if they are slashing and burning like that

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#19 RE: Is PA the cheapest?
24/07/2009 09:31

Mr wobble to Wowsa (#18)

Nah - the business is ok, it's only c6% - by the redundancy route anyway.

Exactly - the values aren't worth upholding in this case apparently. Watch how difficult it will be to uphold any values going forward. The place will become more dog eat dog than ever. It ain't going to be pleasant.

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#20 RE: Is PA the cheapest?
24/07/2009 09:36

Ned Flanders to Mr wobble (#19)

I thought it would all change for the better once Monty Burns stepped down. Its only gotten worse.

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#21 RE: Is PA the cheapest?
24/07/2009 10:17

scaremongering to Ned Flanders (#20)

Yeah, not sure who started the 25% on this thread but way off the mark! The 6% number is no more than PA would get rid of at any other time of year following half-year appraisal and represents the worst performers. The spotlight is obviously on this year so people suddenly taking an interest.

6% is good compared to a lot of our competitors so it's all relative.

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#22 RE: Is PA the cheapest?
24/07/2009 10:19

and another thing... to scaremongering (#21)

Oh, and if any of the people who're getting made redundant haven't been able to see it coming for the last 3 months then they're a moron, it's very clear how the performance system works and they'll have had their CVs out long ago.

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#23 RE: Is PA the cheapest?
24/07/2009 10:25

Truthmonger to scaremongering (#21)

Let’s get some context here.

The published target is to get 6% of staff out of the business on CR by the end of Q3.

There is another target to manage out an additional 7-9% on a PIP in the same timeframe. Staff that are currently on a PIP are being told that they can be put forward for the meagre redundancy payout if they go quietly. So the real figure is approx 14% of staff to be actively exited by the year end. This is in addition to PA’s very high staff attrition rate: anyone with any skills soon gets fed up with the low end clients that most parts of PA get.

Expect an overall headcount reduction of 20 – 25% over the next six months.

And that’s before the next round of redundancies and the upcoming paycuts

Enjoy

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#24 RE: Is PA the cheapest?
24/07/2009 12:20

Anon to Truthmonger (#23)

When I was at PA, they would always bang on about how their conservative approach meant they had survived previous recessions without making redundancies.

This was seen as a differentiator between PA and other MC firms and as a part explanation as to why salaries where lower than the norm and bonuses where generally shite.

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#25 RE: Is PA the cheapest?
26/07/2009 16:23

Aonon to Anon (#24)

This is why PA Consulting is, and always will be, a second tier company. My company is inundated with CVs from PA, but we haven't hired anyone in the past six months. Most of the people we have seen are too generalist. What PA describes as an entrepreneurial mindset is seen outside as lacking any structure and strategy. Little wonder PA is now floundering.

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#26 RE: Is PA the cheapest?
28/07/2009 11:29

Me again to Anon (#24)

Less than two weeks to go on the “consultations” now. Any more news on the across the board pay cuts?

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#27 RE: Is PA the cheapest?
29/07/2009 14:00

Mr Tickle to Me again (#26)

No news but the latest video on PA's external website is priceless!

"Keep people's motivation high while cutting costs"

Unbelievable.

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#28 RE: Is PA the cheapest?
29/07/2009 14:17

anon to Mr Tickle (#27)

You couldn't make this stuff up !!

Are our partners totally dumb, that they don't understand just how crass some thing like that is?

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#29 RE: Is PA the cheapest?
29/07/2009 15:04

anon to anon (#28)

It beggars belief. It just goes to show how out of touch management are with the general mood of staff.

We are f*cked.

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#30 RE: Is PA the cheapest?
29/07/2009 15:36

non-PA to anon (#29)

what would this forum be without PA, EY BAS and Consulting Point?

If half of what is said here on PA is true I can't understand why people join them.

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#31 RE: Is PA the cheapest?
29/07/2009 17:50

Astonished at the quality of posts to non-PA (#30)

It is good that so many parents are happy for their children to post such insightful stuff on here.

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#32 RE: Is PA the cheapest?
29/07/2009 23:02

Meller to Astonished at the quality of posts (#31)

Dear non-PA. It's beggars belief I know. But I was there once and it was horrible - the unhappiest time of my whole life.

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#33 RE: Is PA the cheapest?
03/08/2009 21:40

POC-man to Meller (#32)

ooooh - only 8 more sleeps until the end of the consultation period.

The suspense is killing me

Johnny the Hog

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