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Prestige rankings in UK?

 
#1 Prestige rankings in UK?
30/03/2009 12:39

The Coon

hi all..

what do you think the rankings for presitge of strategy consultancy in the UK are (including boutiques) ?

Tier 1 - MBB

Tier 2 - Roland Berger/?/?

Tier 3 - Accenture/Big4

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#2 RE: Prestige rankings in UK?
30/03/2009 13:04

Mars to The Coon (#1)

Well someone has a lot of time on their hands.

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#3 RE: Prestige rankings in UK?
30/03/2009 13:46

Spamalot to Mars (#2)

well it took you probably 45seconds to click reply, type your name/email and message

given that you would still have had to click, type name/email, the only difference would have been the message content, which would probably have taken you an extra 30 seconds to type

I don't think its a question of time

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#4 RE: Prestige rankings in UK?
30/03/2009 16:34

anon to Spamalot (#3)

well you forgot to add 10 seconds for reading the post...

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#5 RE: Prestige rankings in UK?
30/03/2009 16:35

Spamalot to anon (#4)

and an extra 30 seconds to think if he is a lowly ACN consultant

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#6 RE: Prestige rankings in UK?
03/04/2009 22:58

Gold to Spamalot (#5)

Im struggling with the lingo here.

MBB? ACN? Cheers.

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#7 RE: Prestige rankings in UK?
04/04/2009 03:27

Snickers to Gold (#6)

MBB = Mitchells & Butlers Breweries, or rather the internal consulting business that was spun out several years ago. Now renamed to just MBB, consultants in the biz still refer to "the brewery" and "tank[ard] tops"

ACN = Atos Consulting Network, which brings together the legal entities of various old consulting businesses such as Atos KPMG, SchlumbergerSema, and parts of Atos Origin's IT consulting under one umbrella brand

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#8 RE: Prestige rankings in UK?
04/04/2009 12:42

Fred to Snickers (#7)

Snickers, thanks for clarifying... Ever heard of ACceNture? There is no Atos consulting network, just Atos consulting.

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#9 RE: Prestige rankings in UK?
04/04/2009 14:38

Dairy milk to Fred (#8)

MBB = big 3 of consulting - McKinsey, Boston Consulting Group, Bain and co

ACN = Accenture

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#10 RE: Prestige rankings in UK?
04/04/2009 15:44

Gold to Dairy milk (#9)

Thanks guys. While we're at it, are there any other useful acronyms?

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#11 RE: Prestige rankings in UK?
04/04/2009 19:28

RTFM to Gold (#10)

I expect you will often hear the acronym LMGTFY once you join a consulting firm. See http://lmgtfy.com/ for a full definition.

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#12 RE: Prestige rankings in UK?
05/04/2009 02:42

LOLurker to RTFM (#11)

ROFLMAO

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#13 RE: Prestige rankings in UK?
05/04/2009 17:46

Peter to LOLurker (#12)

Do PA Consulting rank in the top 3?

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#14 RE: Prestige rankings in UK?
05/04/2009 19:40

frankie to Peter (#13)

http://europe.vault.com/nr/consulting_rankings/euro-consulting-rankings.jsp?euroconsult2009=2&ch_id=252

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#15 RE: Prestige rankings in UK?
05/04/2009 19:54

No No No No to Peter (#13)

Peter

No

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#16 RE: Prestige rankings in UK?
06/04/2009 10:17

anon to Peter (#13)

FIFO - Fit In or F*** Off

HAHA - Do PA Consulting Rank in the Top 3.

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#17 RE: Prestige rankings in UK?
06/04/2009 14:29

ting to frankie (#14)

lek at #13...pretty low no?

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#18 RE: Prestige rankings in UK?
06/04/2009 14:37

iamranker to ting (#17)

2009

RANK FIRM SCORE HEADQUARTERS/

LARGEST OFFICE

1 McKinsey & Company 8.410 London

2 The Boston Consulting Group 8.044 Boston

3 Bain & Company 7.530 Boston

4 Booz & Company 6.560 London

5 Mercer 5.979 London/New York

6 Oliver Wyman 5.927 New York

7 Roland Berger Strategy Consultants 5.873 Munich

8 Monitor Group 5.821 Cambridge, Massachusetts

9 A.T. Kearney 5.485 Chicago

10 OC&C Strategy Consultants 5.233 London

11 PricewaterhouseCoopers Ltd 5.207 New York

12 Deloitte 5.049 New York

13 L.E.K. Consulting 5.041 London

14 Ernst & Young 4.864 London

15 Accenture 4.820 London

16 Arthur D. Little 4.750 Paris

17 IBM Global Services 4.654 Madrid/Zurich/Armonk

18 Capgemini 4.509 Paris

19 Gartner, Inc. 4.413 Egham

20 Mars & Co 4.373 London/Paris

21 BearingPoint Inc. 4.275 McLean

22 AlixPartners, LLP 4.214 Southfield

23 PA Consulting Group 4.213 London

24 NERA Economic Consulting 3.822 New York

25 Horváth & Partners 3.734 Stuttgart

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#19 RE: Prestige rankings in UK?
06/04/2009 20:09

anon to iamranker (#18)

The Vault ratings are massively based on US college students' perceptions though - much like the Times Top 100 graduate employers, very unreliable for experienced hires.

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#20 RE: Prestige rankings in UK?
06/04/2009 23:52

tang to anon (#19)

You better read the methodology...the ranking is supposed to be based on surveys completed by consultants not students.

US version is:

1 McKinsey & Company

2 The Boston Consulting Group, Inc.

3 Bain & Company

4 Booz & Company 6.535

5 Monitor Group 6.296

6 Mercer LLC 6.160

7 Deloitte 5.844

8 Oliver Wyman 5.755

9 PricewaterhouseCoopers LLP

10 L.E.K. Consulting 5.426 13

11 Ernst & Young LLP 5.388 NR 12 A.T. Kearney 5.37

13 IBM Global Business Services

14 Accenture 5.314 14 New York, NY

15 The Parthenon Group 5.306 10 16 KPMG LLP 5.246 NR New York, NY

17 Katzenbach Partners LLC 5.146 18 Towers Perrin 4.848 18

19 Capgemini 4.752 22 New York, NY

20 Gartner, Inc. 4.728 12

21 Roland Berger Strategy Consultants 22 ZS Associates 4.645

23 Cambridge Associates LLC 4.5

24 Hewitt Associates 4.541

25 NERA Economic Consulting 4.540

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#21 RE: Prestige rankings in UK?
07/04/2009 00:18

Vault is dead in the water to tang (#20)

Supposed to be, but not - Vault lost traction ca. 2003 and has no European researchers. Hardly any new reviews in the last five years, even in the U.S. Everyone's gone to specialist forums like this one.

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#22 RE: Prestige rankings in UK?
07/04/2009 08:14

The Sophisticated Consultant to Vault is dead in the water (#21)

Like most sophisticated consultants, I have nothing to add to this conversation whatsoever. So, in true sophisticated consultant fashion, I will assert my authority by making a big deal about a trivial point of detail. In this case, I choose to challenge the figure of 8.044 for "The Boston Consulting Group". I would say it is closer to 8.042837465 than 8.044. Indeed, [insert random guff, waffle and bull here]. Let's spend the next 5 hours discussing this point and then reschedule a meeting for 7.00pm on Friday evening to discuss the work we will be doing all day on Saturday and Sunday in the office to investigate this hypothesis further. Now, I have a train to catch (the last one to my home town of Luton goes at 5.45pm), but the rest of you live nearer to London so can easily pack in another 8-10 hours before you go home. Leave the report on my desk for when I arrive tomorrow at around 10.00am and we'll have another meeting at around 10.30am (don't worry, I won't have read your report, nay I will not even have glanced at it, but will give you plenty of "feedback" on it nonetheless that will occupy the remainder of your evenings this week). Thank you.

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#23 RE: Prestige rankings in UK?
07/04/2009 10:10

moomoo to The Sophisticated Consultant (#22)

I don't think they are asking American students otherwise Roland Berger wouldn't be up there

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#24 RE: Prestige rankings in UK?
07/04/2009 11:11

B to tang (#20)

Putting McKinsey and Capgemini in the same ranking is nonsense. They are not in the same business. One is a strategy consultancy, the other an IT integrator/outsourcer with a handfull of consultants (30 in London) delivering organisational design/change management projects, rarely - if ever - strategy.

It's like comparing a Rolls Royce with an Indian car.

Same remark for Bain and IBM, BCG and Acn...

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#25 RE: Prestige rankings in UK?
07/04/2009 12:16

Big Consultant to B (#24)

B,

You are clearly a moron.

Stop chatting rubbish and check your facts before dropping the poo from your mouth.

CapG has at least 600 business consultants in London alone. At least 50 are in Strategy.

The only poo that was solidified when it dropped from your mouth is that CapG does mostly organisational design/change management projects.

The few times they get a strategy project is usually in the public sector or developing a functional strategy e.g. Supply Chain strategy, Marketing strategy, IT strategy for blue chip firms.

And for your info, the survey was for assessing prestige for working for a management consulting firm, not a strategy consulting firm. Hence the mixture of firms you see there.

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#26 RE: Prestige rankings in UK?
07/04/2009 16:13

B to Big Consultant (#25)

@big consultant

I was referring to the so-called transformation and strategy practice, that's why I said they were 30 (maybe 50 today). And these 50 "strategy" consultants don't do strategy, you admit it yourself. IT strategy is not strategy. It's IT.

I've discounted the Business consultants because it's just a nice job title for process mappers, functional specifications writers, IT testers, etc... That's not management consulting.

That's why I said Capgemini has nothing to do in a ranking of top MANAGEMENT consultancy.

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#27 RE: Prestige rankings in UK?
07/04/2009 18:33

Bob to B (#26)

Yes please, lets have ANOTHER discussion about "what is managemetn consulting" so taht we can revisit these arguments once again.

After all, everyone loves to get involved in good level-headed conversation about this same topic at least once a week.

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#28 RE: Prestige rankings in UK?
07/04/2009 22:15

Big Consultant to Bob (#27)

B,

You are still distilling more poo from your mouth.

The possibility of a Capgemini "BUSINESS" consultant, not their IT consultant, doing functional specifications writing or IT testing is as remote as Romania winning the football world cup.

CapG has a very strong IT advisory team that do IT strategy so actually their strategy consultants don't do IT strategy but do other functional strategy and also do strategic analysis linked to system/change implementation.

Unfortunately, you somehow think the only strategy consulting is corporate or business unit strategy.

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#29 RE: Prestige rankings in UK?
07/04/2009 22:28

Big Consultant to Big Consultant (#28)

And to add, Capgemini has a very strong team of dedicated Technology, Media and Entertainment strategy consultants in the C4 practice doing high level strategy work.

And if you still insist on chatting toderol about Capgemini not doing real strategy work then just go to LinkedIn and type in "Capgemini" and "Strategy" in the search function and you will see some ex-Capgemini strategy consultants that have moved to mid-level roles in strategy in some of the top blue chips, this is not listing those that moved to SMEs or start-ups. If they were not really doing strategy consulting, these blue chips will not be hiring them as experienced hires in strategy roles.

Stop chatting pancakes.

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#30 RE: Prestige rankings in UK?
07/04/2009 23:08

Big Consultant to Big Consultant (#29)

You can do a search on these ex Capgemini strategists:

Julien de Salaberry

Abdul (Abe) Latif

Piers Watson

Stefan Scholle

Jason Forbes

Rikin Khamar

Emily Tseng

John Paul Savant

Ajibola Oke

Scott Pleiman

Sebastien Chalmeton

James Copeland

Alex Lee

Anjalika Sengupta

Gerben Busch

Richard Todman

Nicholas Caton

And this are the few, all in blue chips, that have specified strategy in their current or previous roles.

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#31 RE: Prestige rankings in UK?
08/04/2009 03:31

Big Consultant to Big Consultant (#30)

Copeman, not Copeland

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#32 RE: Prestige rankings in UK?
08/04/2009 07:53

noo! to Big Consultant (#31)

why are we arguing? they're 18th not even top10! boo! boo boo!

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#33 RE: Prestige rankings in UK?
08/04/2009 10:51

Again to Big Consultant (#30)

Just to point out that someone putting the word "strategy" on their LinkedIn profile does not make them a strategist or strategy consultant. It is in their self-interest to promote the idea that their time at CapGemini was spent doing something other than testing. "Blue-chips" are not known for having the highest standards regarding who chooses to put the word "strategy" in the job title or job description.

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#34 RE: Prestige rankings in UK?
08/04/2009 11:25

Big Consultant to Again (#33)

Again (which I assume is the same person as B),

This shows how low your intelligence is.

Have you even bothered to check the profiles of some of those I have listed here?

So their 3-6 years in Capgemini was in testing but yet they were hired into strategy in blue chips?

So in blue chips VPs and Heads of Strategy are not strategists. You can only be a strategist if you have worked in MBBB.

Moron, with these level of reasoning, you can never reach the MBBBs you idolise that much. So keep dreaming and be bitter.

Stop chatting crap about companies you know nothing about.

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#35 RE: Prestige rankings in UK?
08/04/2009 11:52

D to Big Consultant (#34)

BC, you are exceptionally defensive about Cap Gemini but haven't offered much at all to explain what is good about it.

I don't know the firm at all, other than from its reputation, which is enough to convince me I don't want to work there. If you really want to add to the firm's reputation you should try and emphasise its positives rather than being overly-defensive about its perceived negatives

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#36 RE: Prestige rankings in UK?
08/04/2009 12:52

Cynic to D (#35)

Well, for starters they have Michael Portillo going around chatting to their clients about various things. Why? I dunno. But it probably flatters the client to think that they're so important that some random local authority manager gets to have his meandering thoughts listened to by such an important international statesman.

http://www.uk.capgemini.com/services/consulting/portillo_meets/

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#37 RE: Prestige rankings in UK?
08/04/2009 13:31

Big Consultant to Cynic (#36)

D,

It would really be nice if you practiced what you preach as you have not offered much at all to explain the reputation you are aware of that convinced you that you don't want to work there.

As I made clear earlier, Capgemini is a management consulting firm that is predominantly strong in organisational design/change management projects. They also has loads of high level IT advisory/strategy and TME strategy projects they engage in. Its general strategy team hardly get top notch strategy projects. These guys tend to do mostly strategic analysis that links to pre-mentioned organisational design/change management projects. That is one of the primary reasons why the team is called the Strategy and Transformation team.

I am not saying Capgemini is a top strategy consulting firm but I object to any moron saying there business consultants get involved in IT testing and the likes. The have a team of highly regarded IT consultants that do this and their is a strong demarcation between the IT and business consultants.

All above apply to the UK practice, in France it is a stronger brand in strategy and do high level work.

But by far the best thing about Capgemini is the nice work culture and also the pay is not bad at all for the stress of what is expected of you.

Furthermore, the brand is not that bad in industry. It is worth having, even as a strategist if you can't get into the top 10.

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#38 RE: Prestige rankings in UK?
08/04/2009 13:49

D to Big Consultant (#37)

Thank you, clearer now.

The reputation you write of is the same that I heard and convinced me I didn't want to work there. Not because it is inherently bad but because it is not a good fit for my background and what I am interested in

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#39 RE: Prestige rankings in UK?
08/04/2009 17:59

B to Big Consultant (#37)

To Big (IT?) Consultant.

- I was not "Again", sorry.

- in your first answer you say the "The few times they get a strategy project (...) it's IT, and in another you say the so-called strategy consultants don't do IT strategy. Do you know what you are talking about? You are really an idiot

- Capgemini Consulting France is crap. They have not done a strategy project since Gemini Consulting was destroyed in the CGEY merger. Stop bullshitting. And even during Gemini/Bossard glorious days, strategy projects were scarce, contrary to Japan who was taken over by Booz I believe in 2002

- By definition in Capgemini, "business consultants" are the people who work at Capgemini technology services. If Capgemini itself makes a distinction between "business consultants" and "management consultants" (those who works in Capgemini consulting) it's not for nothing. And by the way it's not strategy and transformation any more since 2003. It's transformation and strategy.

- having people who do strategy since they left Capgemini does not mean that Capgemini is a top amangement consultancy. It's an IT company, a very good one, but just that.

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#40 RE: Prestige rankings in UK?
12/04/2009 17:20

CG CC to B (#39)

Interesting thread! I would like to throw in my two cents into this discussion.

But first, some background. I work for Capgemini Consulting in the Nordics, and I have been a passive reader at this forum for over a year.

I would say that both sides do have their merits in this case. Instead of taking side, I would like to provide some input for further discussion:

1. There is not a singular, universally accepted definition of strategy consulting vs. management consulting vs. business consulting. In different context and by different firms, they are sometimes used interchangeably, sometimes carrying different meanings from one another.

2. As stated in one of the previous comments, Capgemini Group do differ between strategy/management consultants working within Capgemini Consulting, and business consultants (investigating business requirements and perspective in IT projects) who work within the Technology Services discipline.

3. There is not only a perceived difference, but REAL variation between the kind of assignments and the brand image of Capgemini Consulting (CC) in Europe. In the Nordics, CC is a respected player in management consulting, competing for/winning assignments in the operational strategy space, even against the likes of MBBB, ATK, ADL, etc. Is op. strategy assignments strategy consulting? Again, it's up to each person's individual definition. But if the logic is that anything MBBB touches (including Mck's BTO and op. strategy practices), then CC definitely is in that space.

4. Capgemini Group just announced that it is consolidating CC everywhere into a global consulting organization, it will be interesting to see how the global organization can be leveraged, and how the varying reputation/type of assignments across the globe will be managed.

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