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Decisions decisions...

 
#1 Decisions decisions...
29/02/2008 23:30

BoBo

This isn't strictly consulting based, but it does have some relevance, and I am keen to hear your opinions.

What would you do in this situation?

I'm facing the decision of the following firms for my 12 month industrial placement:

Pfizer

Panasonic

Logica

Accenture

L'Oreal (I'll admit my attraction was purely the money at first, although the role does look interesting)

IBM

I by no means have a job offer from any of the above yet, but I'm fairly confident I will get one from at least one.

Plus I'm also awaiting responses to my application from Schroders, Proctor and Gamble and Goldman Sachs. Although whether I will progress to the next stage with those three I am not sure.

Additionally, I have been told by QEDIS I could potentially have an interview with them too. But to do so would mean re-arranging prior commitments on a future date, so that I would be available, and furthermore, this would not guarantee an interview as I would only be placed on a sort of backup list.

In conclusion, I'm faced with a lot of options and I'm not sure what to do. Just need opinions :-)

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#2 RE: Decisions decisions...
01/03/2008 03:26

First Dog Barney Bush to BoBo (#1)

Its tough for any of us to give an opinion because you havnt told us any more...your interests, future career goals, etc....

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#3 RE: Decisions decisions...
03/03/2008 10:48

Mars A Day to BoBo (#1)

Until you have some offers you don't really have options to talk about but if we are doing the hypothetical thing, I would exclude L'Oreal as the UK operation is a notorious sweatshop, exclude Logica as it is not a good launch point for your career if you want to fast track, IBM for same reason, and Panasonic (lack of profile). This leaves ACN (big brand, kudos when you graduate), Pfizer (again big brand, blue chip experience), but frankly my overall ranking would be

Procter & Gamble by a long mile

Goldman Sachs

ACN

Schroders

Pfizer

Any of the others.

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#4 RE: Decisions decisions...
03/03/2008 11:38

Bluster to Mars A Day (#3)

Mars,

I see from the forum that your'e in the recruitment business, mainly consulting I guess.

I see a lot of threads in here about the merits and options going for MBB (B) firms. Tell me please, in your experience, what is such the big deal with joining these firms:

Is it the money..I thought they don't pay significantly more than the other firms, for example if your are on £60k elsewhere then the most you'd get from them is about 75k-80k. Not bad granted,but nothing stellar

Is it the cache...by joining and doing a stint there, you can go into senior management roles back in industry

Is it the work...the strategy type work seems exciting and fun, but when you dig a bit deeper, all this strategy and recommendations needs to be underpinned by heavy and arduous analysis, which is time intensive and hence puts a drag on your social life..

i'd be interetsed in knowing your thoughts

B

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#5 RE: Decisions decisions...
03/03/2008 11:40

Anon to Mars A Day (#3)

Avoid Schroders at all costs. My old manager worked there and said it was the worst working environment he had ever encountered. I'm assuming you're applying for an IT industrial placement? If so I'd put GS at the top simply because their brand name alone will get you interviews in other disciplines should IB not be your desired career path.

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#6 RE: Decisions decisions...
03/03/2008 11:53

Bluster to Mars A Day (#3)

Mars,

I see from the forum that your'e in the recruitment business, mainly consulting I guess.

I see a lot of threads in here about the merits and options going for MBB (B) firms. Tell me please, in your experience, what is such the big deal with joining these firms:

Is it the money..I thought they don't pay significantly more than the other firms, for example if your are on £60k elsewhere then the most you'd get from them is about 75k-80k. Not bad granted,but nothing stellar

Is it the cache...by joining and doing a stint there, you can go into senior management roles back in industry

Is it the work...the strategy type work seems exciting and fun, but when you dig a bit deeper, all this strategy and recommendations needs to be underpinned by heavy and arduous analysis, which is time intensive and hence puts a drag on your social life..

i'd be interetsed in knowing your thoughts

B

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#7 RE: Decisions decisions...
03/03/2008 12:31

Mars to Bluster (#6)

The attraction of MBB is partially in the cache you are quite right - you have more exit options with a few years MBB experience under your belt, but I suspect many people join them because the boards of the FTSE100 are heavily staffed with ex MBB, and in reality it is only a few who make it that far. The other attractions are of course it is a validation of sorts (i.e. that you are good enough for MBB and therefore can feel good about yourself), and the opportunity to get involved with clients at a senior level, advising on significant change work etc which you would not generally get outside strategy. But frankly ACN, Deloitte and some others have strat practices which - from my experience of interviewing people from all of them - are as good as MBB in many respects (with less cache perhaps) and probably more suited to exit than the typical MBB consultant who can be a little linear in their thinking. At the end of the day you don't join Goldman Sachs or McKinsey for the work - expect a good beasting when you get there - but for the kudos, the chance to leverage that experience and make serious money, and because it might - just might - get you laid in London.

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#8 RE: Decisions decisions...
03/03/2008 13:01

Bluster to Mars (#7)

Thanks Mars...

I do disagree with you on one small point though: I don't think they pay the massive money you say they do.

If your market value at Deloitte and ACN is 60k, then your market worth to them is about 75k ish, ceteris paribus.

B

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#9 RE: Decisions decisions...
03/03/2008 13:39

Anon to Bluster (#8)

as someone who has actually worked at more than 1 MBB firm, I believe that Mars' answer (particularly around validation) is an important part of why people join. As well as the future prospects (either exit or within the firm - millions of pounds at director level).

People seem to stay though for the work. Not the hours, but the work itself - high level, industry shaping stuff. I genuinely believe that everyone at Mckinsey could make more money (often with fewer hours) elsewhere, but for those that do stay it is the work and the people that keep them there. For those that don't it's either hours (industry) or money (PE) that drive them away.

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#10 RE: Decisions decisions...
04/03/2008 00:52

BoBo to Mars A Day (#3)

I'm interested to know more, Mars a day, about L'Oreal being a notorious sweatshop operation in the UK, as I have an interview with them in the next couple of weeks.

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#11 RE: Decisions decisions...
04/03/2008 10:53

Mars to BoBo (#10)

Once upon a time I was a specialist FMCG sector HH and know L'Oreal well - they are notoriously hard to hire for from those in the know, i.e. moves laterally from within FMCG. Also all the decisions are made in Paris and simply executed from the Hammersmith office which can lead to the UK feeling both disjointed from the roadmap and second class. The point about the sweatshop culture is something I have not witnessed myself (hidden cameras and all that don't feature much in this job), but is an insight I have heard repeatedly from candidates I have approached who know them.

On balance it is a great brand with a high profile, and you could do a lot worse if you want to launch into FMCG sector, just be prepared for life on the ground which is anything but glamorous. Question you have to ask yourself is 'Is it worth it?'.

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#12 RE: Decisions decisions...
04/03/2008 12:36

BoBo to Mars (#11)

Thanks for the insight.

Just got an e-mail from ACN this morning, rejecting me at the application form stage. Really quite gutted about it, I know only 1/3 get through, but I really put in a huge amount of effort into the form, and feel that I was better suited than the majority of my peers who got 1st round interviews. Nevermind.

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#13 RE: Decisions decisions...
04/03/2008 14:19

ZB to BoBo (#12)

The the dissapointment in this would be.....?

Oh..i forget...you only wanted to be a SI/SAP/Project Management/Change Management rogue I guess

ZB

ZB

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#14 RE: Decisions decisions...
04/03/2008 14:22

anon to ZB (#13)

That’s a weird stutter you have there..

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#15 RE: Decisions decisions...
04/03/2008 15:18

BoBo to ZB (#13)

The disappointment would be that for a 19yr old, I felt ACN would be one of the few (realistic) good places to start my career...

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#16 RE: Decisions decisions...
04/03/2008 15:48

ZB to BoBo (#15)

ACN are useless, non-value adding and just glorified admin staff wrapped up and packaged as 'advisors' to anyone who is foolish enough to employ them. I've never been so unimpressed with a group of people in my life.

ZB

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#17 RE: Decisions decisions...
04/03/2008 15:50

Zzzzzzz to BoBo (#15)

Don't worry about ZB. He has a chip on his shoulder against anyone who can string more than 2 words together in what we call a "sentence" that is correctly structured and free from spelling errors.

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#18 RE: Decisions decisions...
04/03/2008 16:10

f to Zzzzzzz (#17)

d

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