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new university rankingd

 
#1 new university rankingd
03/05/2007 21:45

curious

is this latest one fair? Here's the top ten....

Oxford 95.29

Cambridge 91.92

Imperial College 82.27

St Andrews 79.30

UCL 79.17

London School of Economics 78.53

Edinburgh 75.15

Warwick 75.01

Loughborough 73.44

Bath

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#2 RE: new university rankingd
03/05/2007 21:51

idiot to curious (#1)

Top ten for what?

Media studies.. oh great.

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#3 RE: new university rankingd
03/05/2007 21:54

chortle to idiot (#2)

i believe it is the latest Guardian ranking.....

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#4 RE: new university rankingd
03/05/2007 22:04

opro to chortle (#3)

Not great rankings at first glance - knowing how good different unis are in life-sciences (I have a PhD), I can see that their rankings are totally out, some of them by a long, long way. And poor souls will use this info to make a major life decision.

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#5 RE: new university rankingd
04/05/2007 09:34

D to opro (#4)

What happened to Bristol? Got to be better than any of the bottom three...

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#6 RE: new university rankingd
04/05/2007 09:53

Goodcat to D (#5)

One of the better indicators of how 'cutting edge' (don't you just hate that phrase?) management education is at any given university is to look at the research score of its business/management school.

Usually the highest possible score is 5*. However, receiving consecutive 5* scores (which suggests consistent world class research) results in a 6*. Last time I checked, which in fairness was a bit back, there were only two 6* management schools in the UK: London and Lancaster.

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#7 RE: new university rankingd
04/05/2007 10:02

Interest to Goodcat (#6)

Yawn !

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#8 RE: new university rankingd
04/05/2007 12:02

Mike to Interest (#7)

The university rankings vary depending on the subject/field as well as the level of qualification (undergrad/postgrad, MBA, phd etc).

So what are the details behind this ranking, because i am a little suprised by the high ranking of Loughborough, Edinburgh and St Andrews

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#9 RE: new university rankingd
04/05/2007 12:06

moodle to Mike (#8)

I am not at all surprised by the high ranking of st Andrews and Edinburgh. The Scottish education system has much to recommend it and these two ancient universities have been leading lights of education for hundreds of years.

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#10 RE: new university rankingd
04/05/2007 12:22

Mike to moodle (#9)

The Scottish universities are undoubtedly excellent, but I would say the likes of Warwick and LSE should rank higher, overall and particularly when focusing on a specific area such as Business or economics.

2006's Sunday Times rankings (overall) - FOR UNDERGRAD DEGREES

Cambridge

Oxford

LSE

Imperial

UCL

Warwick

York

Durham

Bristol

St Andrews

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#11 RE: new university rankingd
04/05/2007 13:52

the professor to Mike (#10)

Rankings will come and go and some departments at lowly universities will continue to be better than those at more highly regarded ones. However, in terms of quality of experience and pure snob value (ie the test of what people irrationally think of you purely because of the university you attended) the list is nearly always as follows:

1. Oxbridge

2. LSE and Imperial

3. UCL, Edinburgh, St Andrews, Bristol, Durham, Warwick

4. Next tier including Manchester, other Russell groupers etc

5. Everyone else

If you apply the same criteria to business schools, the list would look something like this:

1. LBS

2. Oxbridge, Cranfield, Warwick, Manchester

3. The rest

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#12 RE: new university rankingd
04/05/2007 18:56

Diz to the professor (#11)

I'd have to agree with that professor, though I personally wouldb't put St. Andrews up there with Bristol, Durham, UCL reputation wise

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#13 RE: new university rankingd
05/05/2007 07:46

Jetlag to Diz (#12)

OK, so can we find the 'worst' Uni that's doing well in MC?

I'll start the ball rolling with Leeds...

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#14 RE: new university rankingd
05/05/2007 08:40

Art to Mike (#10)

I agree with Mike that Warwick and LSE should be ranked higher, especially in the business related area. My own ranking of TOP 10 in banking, consultanting and industry ranks as:

1. Oxbridge

2. LSE, Warwick and Imperial

3. Bristol, Durham, UCL, Edingburgh,

4. Other Russell Group Uni.

5. The Rest

As I said, this is only to the business related degrees.

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#15 RE: new university rankingd
06/05/2007 16:06

Big Consultant to Art (#14)

In my opinion it is like a football league with 3 dominating top 3 teams and other teams that shift year after year with some promotions and demotions. Then there is the second, third and fourth divisions which also follow the rule just stated.

Top League:

Cambridge (Very dominant)

Oxford (Very dominant)

Imperial (Fairly dominant)

LSE

UCL

Bristol

Edinburgh

KCL

Nottingham

Warwick

Bath

St Andrews

Durham

Manchester

Sheffield

Southampton

Lancaster

York

Birmingham

League 2:

Loughborough

Soas

Leeds

Glasgow

Exeter

Sussex

Royal Holloway

QMW

Dundee

City

Essex

Leicester

Cardiff

Queen's Belfast

Reading

Brunel

etc

League 3:

Aston

Kent

Heriot Watt

Bradford

Portsmouth

Middlesex

London Met

Hull

Kingston

Brighton

Swansea

etc

League 4:

Derby

Luton

Coventry

Keele

East London

Thames Valley

Salford

Robert Gordon

Napier

etc

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#16 RE: new university rankingd
07/05/2007 03:05

Two cents to Big Consultant (#15)

What are these rankings for? I mean some unis are good for a particular course but not others. I mean City is good for business and should not be in legaue 2. Loughborough (speelling?) is great for sport science etc and Brunel is also excellent for engineering - second to none in research a thriving thin and thick sandwich format.

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#17 RE: new university rankingd
07/05/2007 15:28

Big Consultant to Two cents (#16)

In my opinion, the ranking is based on aggregate of all subjects, aggregate entry requirements and perceived prestige (usually generated from reputation in research).

As I always advise pre-university students, hardly do anybody look at individual subject ratings. Human beings are too lazy to be bothered to check university strength in each subject so they are more likely to go by overall reputation. Individual subject strength is only relevant if you are aspiring to work for a industrial firm e.g. An engineering firm would know that Brunel is top notch for engineering.

That is just my advice.

Regards.

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#18 RE: new university rankingd
09/05/2007 10:21

Nick to Big Consultant (#17)

I disagree Big Consultant, anybody who is clever enough to get into these types of unis (and then get into MC) surely is also clever enough/has the common sense to check individual subject rankings. Whether they matter or not is down to interpretation but I would take the view that it may appear as if they don't matter simply because the correlation is high between overall good unis and good unis for the type of subjects that typically MCs have.

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#19 RE: new university rankingd
09/05/2007 10:50

Big Consultant to Nick (#18)

Hi Nick,

Please note that I never focused on "intelligence", "clever" or "common sense".

My statement was focused on "lazy" and "bothered".

There are smart people that are lazy or who discard anything that involves detail. They pride themselves on the "big picture".

Anyway, my opinion alluded to HR staff anyway who do the initially screening.

This people know that it is not going to be too much of a problem for them if they hire a guy from Cambridge who fails to perform compared to hiring a guy from University of Bournemouth who fails to perform.

If you still disagree, I will just suggest you do a little test in your consultancy:

Ask a senior consultant or recruitment staff to name the top 10 universities overall.

Then ask them to name the top 10 universities for Economics/Business Management/Mathematics/Politics etc.

If you see any that is foolhardy to attempt the second one, please go and check the ratings to see how their list aligns with the generally accepted ratings (Times and Guardian ratings) for those subjects.

It is not fair but it is a fact. Human beings are too lazy to analyse into detail they try and choose the first reasonable and easy option that presents itself and that would probably work rather that the best that takes hard work for marginally more benefit to them. Read the book "What is Strategy" it has a paragraph on this. It is a very small book and I can't remember the chapter.

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#20 RE: new university rankingd
14/05/2007 22:22

sine to Big Consultant (#19)

it probably should be about which are hardest to get in to. the professor has it pretty accurate on that front

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#21 RE: new university rankingd
15/05/2007 14:16

cosine to sine (#20)

Big Consultant is spot on.

Most people know, the top 10 uni's generally in the UK. but when it comes to specific degrees, it then becomes a bit of a hurdle. I could tell you the top 10 unis for maths, but outside that field, i wouldnt be comfortable making such a ranking.

eg English... well i know a lot of uni's do it, but i couldnt tell you which uni's are renouned for english..... so i would begin listing a ranking based on general reputation. Is it fair? Is it right? Who cares more to the point? If someone is employing you for your subject choice, you will have hoped they know which uni's are best for that particular subject.

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#22 RE: new university rankingd
16/05/2007 02:43

potential fool?! to cosine (#21)

So was I totally misguided 8 years ago...when I rejected an offer from Imperial to go to Sheffield to do an MEng?! SHeffield was no.1 in the country for my courese and in top 10 overall and i simply was not impressed by the arrogant imperial 'feel' at their open day!

Is Sheffield really regarded as low nowadays..I only ask as I want to do an MBA. I got AAAA @ A - level but they dont seem to ask this....only what uni u attended. Surely the uni is only part of the puzzle or indeed was i a fool to go with my gut at the course ratings to say no to Imperial??

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#23 RE: new university rankingd
16/05/2007 10:29

Big Consultant to potential fool?! (#22)

Hi potential intelligent guy/gal,

In my opinion, I think you made a (big) mistake.

It is like turning down Arsenal to play for Sheffield United or Sunderland.

Sheffield, Southampton, Birmingham and Newcastle (which I forgot to include) Unis are likely to be the ones sitting in the relegation zone/lower end of league one.

But in my opinion, they are still very good Unis.

Although Imperial is the next best thing to the snobbish power of Oxbridge. It is almost as good as saying you went to MIT.

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#24 RE: new university rankingd
16/05/2007 11:43

anon to Big Consultant (#23)

potential fool, if your working in a specific engineering area, then no i dont think you've made a mistake... but if not then i believe you have made a mistake...

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#25 RE: Cambridge vs Oxford
16/05/2007 15:08

whatever to curious (#1)

Cambridge is currently ranked 2nd in the world to Harvard (recent global league table) oxford was seventh From a UK perspective obviously cambridge/oxford are stronger in differing subjects but what makes the difference is in the quality of tutors/tutution as they are scored in this area for each subject. Cambridge is way ahead in that respect in all areas. Also if you look at the number of successful start ups and entrepreneurs in cambridge huge gap.

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#26 RE: Cambridge vs Oxford
16/05/2007 16:19

Big Consultant to whatever (#25)

Oxford can also get one back on them by looking at the number of successful political leaders that are Oxford Alumni.

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#27 RE: Cambridge vs Oxford
16/05/2007 16:32

anon to Big Consultant (#26)

wow - exciting! Oxford vs. Cambridge! What a humdinger!

Wake me up when you've finished, eh lads?

Pathetic public school jocks.

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#28 RE: Cambridge vs Oxford
19/07/2007 11:55

Bill to anon (#27)

Any ranking that places St. Andrews above Edinburgh as the top Scottish University is very misguided. St. Andrews doesn't teach some of the core University subjects (e.g. Law, Vet). Edinburgh is the only Scottish University to publish its own Law Review. It is also an academic magnet. St Andrews is good for golf; Edinburgh is a serious Educational institution.

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#29 RE: Cambridge vs Oxford
19/07/2007 12:49

anon to Bill (#28)

Glasgow is up there with Edinburgh/St Andrews too no?

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#30 RE: Cambridge vs Oxford
19/07/2007 12:57

ko to anon (#29)

In reality, yes, but in people's perception, no. It's probably better than both, but due to snob value it's not viewed as such.

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#31 RE: Cambridge vs Oxford
19/07/2007 13:35

Harry to ko (#30)

Where is CRANFIELD in all these rankings????

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#32 RE: Cambridge vs Oxford
19/07/2007 14:12

Bill to Harry (#31)

Glasgow is 2nd best Uni in Scotland, behind Edinburgh but ahead of St. Andrews. It's better than Edinburgh for Engineering and Business. Strathclyde is also a top Uni, I would even place Strathclyde 3rd best Uni in Scotland, ahead of 4th place St. Andrews.

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#33 RE: Cambridge vs Oxford
19/07/2007 14:26

Tight Scott to Bill (#32)

Stirling all the way! Hoot hoot!

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#34 RE: Cambridge vs Oxford
19/07/2007 14:42

anon to Tight Scott (#33)

You're also a bunch of jocks :-)

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#35 Ignorant fools
01/08/2007 17:18

mcmanus to anon (#34)

I think the posters of the messages immediately above are quite mistaken. St Andrews is the third oldest university in the UK. It has a higher number of FTSE 100 director alumni in proportion to its size than any university in the UK. Its many famous alumni include two signatories of the American Declaration of Independence. Not impressed by history? Look at the latest rankings: 5th in UK; 4th in UK, etc etc. All this from a tiny university severely limited by the Scottish Executive's policy on fee charging.

There are 11 applications for every place at St Andrews; entrance requirements are very similar to Oxbridge, and it has the highest student satisfaction ratings in Britain. Nuff said.

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#36 RE:
01/08/2007 17:32

tom to mcmanus (#35)

I am that 'pathetic public school oxbridge jock!' i know i know.. Attended public school, first class oxbridge degree..now a dream Phd position/studentship at Leeds awaits( its an exciting research project!!) I am torn and wary to wander out of my ' Oxbridge coocon' should i take it up- Guys ..opinion and advise largely appreciated!!!

'pathetic oxbidge jock'

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#37 RE:
01/08/2007 18:41

Pear to tom (#36)

Tom,

Glad to see standards have not slipped in your "oxbidge" (sic) "coocon" (sic).

Let me guess, first in Land Economy, PHD in smth Polo-related?

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#38 RE:
02/08/2007 14:09

tom to Pear (#37)

need serious advise...

jokers can stay away...

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#39 RE:
02/08/2007 14:13

pi to tom (#38)

You said yourself it's a dream positon. Why then would you not take it? At postgraduate level, the university doesn't matter so much. It's the quality of research, supervisor and programme for your PhD project that's really important. I rejected Cambridge a post-grad and post-doc level for these reasons. I say do it!

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#40 RE: new university rankingd
07/08/2007 06:45

... to Big Consultant (#15)

haha, I like your analogy comparing uni rankings with football league.

so, which uni is liverpool?

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#41 RE: new university rankingd
20/08/2007 11:11

anon to ... (#40)

St Andrews is great for golf. And that's about it.

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