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KPMG vs Detica

 
#1 KPMG vs Detica
20/04/2007 11:06

P

I have a final interview for one and an offer from the other. I know that they are very different places - Detica is very technology focussed with a lot of governmental contracts, but well-respected, KPMG is only just starting its consulting (advisory practice) again.

However, forgetting all that, what would give best training, prospects for the future and the most enjoyable experience?

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#2 RE: KPMG vs Detica
20/04/2007 11:08

P to P (#1)

I should add that this is for an entry-level role.

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#3 RE: KPMG vs Detica
20/04/2007 11:28

A Mars A Day... to P (#2)

Both are great companies to kick start your career in, but if you are expecting to move on in a year or 2 I would suggest KPMG has the more immediate brand equity (even though the advisory part is just starting to build). Detica are building immense critical mass in the market, and are highly respected, but it will take time for them to get the same cache in wider terms of recognition. Detica is more akin to MBBB in its intellectualism, KPMG a softer culture. It all comes down to where you feel comfortable, and congratulations on the offer by the way!

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#4 RE: KPMG vs Detica
20/04/2007 13:49

Rec Cons to A Mars A Day... (#3)

I agree with Mars.

KPMG will take you to better places in the future. When taking a grad role this is especially important.

For instance, broadly speaking, a move form KPMG to Detica down the line would be easier than a move from Detica to KPMG.

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#5 RE: KPMG vs Detica
20/04/2007 13:55

A Mars A Day... to Rec Cons (#4)

Nicely put Rec Cons - there is also the culture issue though; would you agree KPMG tends to be a softer bounce than Detica?

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#6 RE: KPMG vs Detica
20/04/2007 14:11

P to A Mars A Day... (#5)

Thanks for those comments - that really helps. Just what do you mean by a "softer bounce"? Do you mean intellectually?

P

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#7 RE: KPMG vs Detica
20/04/2007 14:42

Rec Cons to P (#6)

Yes I agree re: KPMG. It's softer full stop. Anyway you look at it.

This of course may be appealing to a grad but it would frustrate me as I think they are sometimes over supportive of "dead wood".

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#8 RE: KPMG vs Detica
20/04/2007 14:56

Mars to P (#6)

I mean a more forgiving culture with a less steep learning and development curve, less intellectualism. Detica is a great place if you can take the pace, but as a first step into consulting I would have to say KPMG would be the better choice.

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#9 RE: KPMG vs Detica
24/04/2007 22:59

P to Mars (#8)

Hi,

I've now become confused by the recent posting comparing EY, PA and Detica. It suggested that Detica was perhaps better than EY, and here KPMG is said a better choice than Detica. And on yet another post EY is considered better than KPMG.

Where's the consistent ranking - perhaps Mike or some others from post 27845 could throw in their two cents?

Thanks!

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#10 RE: KPMG vs Detica
25/04/2007 01:50

anon to P (#9)

Consistent ranking?! This isn't the periodic table - all these ratings and comparisons are subjective. If you hadn't noticed, half the people posting within each thread have different opinions. It's your job to synthesise that information to come to your own conclusions. That's one of the skills you'll need to master to be successful in consulting (or any other profession for that matter).

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#11 RE: KPMG vs Detica
25/04/2007 09:27

Another anon to anon (#10)

This is one of a few good threads - so worth keeping going, as it should produce some interesting insights... The point about 'best' consultancy is well made though - it really is down to what you are comparing - market sectors, culture, intellectual challenge, compensation, future prospects etc etc.

Here's a thought to keep the discussion going Detica has a continuing track record v strong market growth; this is going to have direct implications for opportunities in the company and for sales targets for anyone joining...

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#12 RE: KPMG vs Detica
25/04/2007 09:55

P to Another anon (#11)

Fair point about consistency - I should have phrased it differently. Essentially I'm looking for best training and prospects for the future, although the intellectual challenge is something that appeals to me. I would hate to start a job and feel that I was not being pushed really hard. This is a big draw with Detica. However, I do appreciate the point that a bigger name on the CV is a better starting point.

Decisions, decisions!

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#13 RE: KPMG vs Detica
25/04/2007 09:57

Steve Aldrin to P (#1)

Through this post, I intend to serve as a facilitator who will help you draw your own conclusions about KPMG. That is, I'll be your "guide on the side", not a "sage on the stage". With my assistance, you'll soon gain a deep understanding of how it makes perfect sense that KPMG doesn't want me to reach the broadest possible audience with the message that I don't think it understands what jujuism means to all the people it hurts. Wait! Before you dismiss me as amoral, hear me out. Indeed, if I seem a bit intemperate, it's only because I'm trying to communicate with KPMG on its own level.

This theme has been struck before, but I guess nobody ever explained that to KPMG's devotees. Only the impartial and unimpassioned mind will even consider that it would be wrong to imply that KPMG is involved in some kind of conspiracy to seize control over where we eat, sleep, socialize, and associate with others. It would be wrong because its adages are far beyond the conspiracy stage. Not only that, but anyone who hasn't been living in a cave with his eyes shut and his ears plugged knows that inasmuch as I disagree with its accusations and find its ad hominem attacks offensive, I am happy to meet its speech with more speech and, if necessary, continue this discussion until the truth shines. A large percentage of KPMG's apple-polishers can be termed brusque. Surely, KPMG is not too anti-democratic to realize that. It goes without saying that there are some simple truths in this world. First, my personal safety depends upon your starting to bear witness to the plain, unvarnished truth, just as your personal safety depends upon my doing the same. Second, KPMG exhibits bad sportsmanship. And finally, griping about KPMG will not make it stop trying to boss others around. But even if it did, it would just find some other way to erode constitutional principles that have shaped our society and remain at the core of our freedom and liberty. Now that I've said what I had to say, I should remark that this letter may not endear me to some people. Indeed, it may even cost me a friend or two. However, friends do not let friends get trampled by sordid, disreputable polluters like KPMG. The truth is the truth and we pay a steep price whenever we ignore it.

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#14 RE: KPMG vs Detica
25/04/2007 10:00

Anon to Rec Cons (#4)

Whilst I would have agreed that KPMG offered a better platform than Detica a few years ago, it's worth recognising that the market is changing very rapidly. KPMG is rebuilding its advisory services and has some distinct qualities, especially around its people management, but in the same time Detica has acquired 5 other consultancies, reported consistently strong growth, joined the FTSE 250 and built a Business Consultancy offering that is now winning big deals. So in addition to its technology legacy it is now top 10/top 5 in certain other areas, so definately on a strong trajectory.

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#15 RE: KPMG vs Detica
25/04/2007 10:07

Anon to Steve Aldrin (#13)

Er, that was interesting... Going back to intellectual challenge, you would certainly get that at Detica as its USP (in a nutshell) is 'solving people's complex problems'; that said its performance has been achived by very tight operational control (ie high utilisation/man days) so training/personal development will always require a strong justification, and is often done PT.

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#16 RE: KPMG vs Detica
25/04/2007 10:53

A Mars A Day... to Anon (#15)

Possibly this is being over-analysed? We are discussing an entry level role - the original poster will, in all probability, move on from either Detica or KPMG after 2 or 3 years there, so the long term is not critical - its the initial development, and getting the right start that is the point.

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#17 RE: KPMG vs Detica
26/04/2007 14:00

blahblahblah to A Mars A Day... (#16)

Feel like I'm coming in at the end of all this but if it would helpful, I have been at KPMG for some time in their advisory practice and have recently resigned so it may help you to know my reasoning....

KPMG's advisory practice is going for a tough time and has only recently resumed recruiting following a freeze brought about by a failure to hit targets and a very poor pipeline. This has not markedly improved and the troops are getting restless with a number of very good people leaving. Not only are people getting frustrated with having nothing to do but also becoming concerned about the impact the recent poor performance is going to have on bonuses (which make up a large % of people's overall packages which tend to have lower base salaries than most).

That brings me on to another reason for my own departure - pay and reward. The pay (especially base) at KPMG is extremely poor compared to other large consultancies and it seems that the money which is made is used to support the overly soft culture, subside a very bloated infrastructure (everything is paper based, they have more secretaries than is healthy and they have over 10 separate offices in London alone a) and to swell the wallets and purses of Partners.

In terms of people, while KPMG has a very supportive culture I have found that this to be stifling at times and at a cost to challenge and dynamism. I have also found the average ability of consultants here (particularly at senior ranks) to be far inferior to other consultancies I have worked at, especially when compared to my last employer - Accenture.

I have really enjoyed my time here, learnt a lot and met some lovely people but if I was to recommend somewhere which was dynamic, had a good pipeline of interesting and challenging work, had inspiring leaders and who paid the market rate, it would certainly not be KPMG.

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#18 RE: KPMG vs Detica
26/04/2007 14:24

P to blahblahblah (#17)

Thanks blahblahblah, it's very useful to get some insider knowledge.

What about the point that it's a good place for a grad to go in terms of training and having a recognisable name on the CV? Do you agree?

Thanks

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#19 RE: KPMG vs Detica
26/04/2007 16:46

blahblahblah to P (#18)

I think it is a good name to have on your CV and they remain a very respected company, but the grads I have spoken to have not spoken that highly of the training they received (although they have said it has got better) and in particular have felt that at times they were not given enough responsibility early enough.

However I think in general starting off at a big firm with a good reputation is a good way to start a consulting career and I certainly learnt one hell of a lot at Accenture (where I started). I think the main things to look for are practical examples of the training you will receive, a clear understanding about how and when you will be deployed on projects in your first 2 years (e.g. degree of responsibility, rotation around different functions etc) and a chance to speak to current graduates in an informal setting.

Whatever you decision best of luck!

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#20 RE: KPMG vs Detica
27/04/2007 15:33

Bored of Andrew Rondeau to blahblahblah (#19)

Grads always think that - they think they know more than they do.

'If I was running this scheme I'd....blah blah blah blah blah blah blah'

...says Tarquin, 21 from Surrey.

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#21 RE: KPMG vs Detica
30/04/2007 11:43

Tim to P (#1)

P, sorry. haven't had time to read the whole thread, but it depends on what type of work you want to do.

Detica have always been strong in the public sector, as everyone knows, but with the recent acquisitions of MA Partners and evolution, they are now one of the leaders in the FS space and have some exceptional projects coming up in that area.

I've recruited for MA for a while now and, as a recruiter with nothing to gain by you joining Detica, I'd recommend them for FS every time

Don't know as much about their presence in other areas, i'm afraid

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