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Venting Frustration (2)

 
#1 Venting Frustration (2)
01/03/2007 06:23

Bob

It's bloody annoying when so many people out there claim to be in "Consulting", to the point where this term is as overused as "Engineer" or "Executive". A good number of them don't "consult" but rather, they implement. And yet these bunch of clowns still want to be associated with us Strat consultants despite knowing the nature of their work. I think consulting should be synonymous with Strat-related work. These other guys should just find themselves another fanciful term. "Implementation Executive" maybe?

Does anyone else share the same sentiment?

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#2 RE: Venting Frustration (2)
01/03/2007 06:35

I have never heard such arrogant ignorance in my life to Bob (#1)

Dictionary Definition of consulting..

1. employed or involved in giving professional advice to the public or to those practicing the profession: a consulting physician.

2. of, pertaining to, or used for consultation: a physician's consulting room.

Next time you are rushed into hospital for an emergency proceedure, make sure you tell the consultant that he/she does not deserve to carry that title... but should instead be called a healthy making problem solver

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#3 RE: Venting Frustration (2)
01/03/2007 06:55

Dingo to I have never heard such arrogant ignorance in my life (#2)

Bob,

I'd venture to suggest that the majority of 'implementation' consultants actually deliver far more value for money to a client than most ( not all) strat-consultants. This is especially true at the more junior end of the market which , taking a wild guess here, you probably represent.

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#4 RE: Venting Frustration (2)
01/03/2007 07:33

agree to Dingo (#3)

Imagine the scene, strat consultant comes into the ER of a hospital after a car accident, blood pouring out of every vein. A panicked nurse cries out "Fetch the consultant". At this point a group of 23 year old spotty graduates spend the next 3 months making pointless spreadsheets and powerpoint presentation. After 3 months a senior manager who has been conspicuous by his absence during the past 3 months suggests putting a band aid on the cuts to stem the flow. Unfortunately the patient died on arrival in the hospital and the lawyers are now in launching an investigation as to why the right treatment was not offered immediately. The consultants, having cost the hospital something like 10 times the amount of money they actually received themselves move on to their next project. A commuter train has just been derailed. This time they call for the experts....

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#5 RE: Venting Frustration (2)
01/03/2007 08:01

sorry to agree (#4)

... for the offensive post above. I am a consultant from a hospital, just back from a night shift. I think I must be on the wrong site. Apparently we are not consultants. I will need to look elsewhere

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#6 RE: Venting Frustration (2)
01/03/2007 09:15

Pirlo to sorry (#5)

I agree with you Bob 100%. all envy, no substance. Consulting should refer to exclusively strategy.

Don't the Silly 4 call themselves 'advisors' anyways? Thats for a reason folks...

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#7 RE: Venting Frustration (2)
01/03/2007 09:47

bri500 to Pirlo (#6)

That people can only see that the market is "segmented" in to strategy and implementation shows just how little you know about consulting!

Anyway, shouldn't junior strategy "consultants" be called "analysts" for all their days, who do they consult for their info but spreadsheets, Google and investor reports? They sure as hell don't talk to any clients.

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#8 RE: Venting Frustration (2)
01/03/2007 10:31

no you're wrong to bri500 (#7)

they consult their spreadsheets and this website...

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#9 RE: Venting Frustration (2)
01/03/2007 10:51

Bob to bri500 (#7)

Thanks for all the replies so far. Lets consider the 1st reply:

"i have never heard such arrogant ignorance in my life", you provided 2 possible definitions. I was clearly referring to the 1st definition while you tried to provide a counter example based on the 2nd definition. Go figure.

Dingo, "Value for money" is not the point of the discussion. I do agree that implementation work brings a company value that pure strat work cannot achieve. But I was ranting about the ASSOCIATION with strat, not the value that each group brings to the table. And if you think about it, "more value for money" to the client is due to the lower price point. Would you prefer the services you charge to be of a lower or higher price?

bri500, when it comes to talking to clients, it's more quality than quantity. Face-time with a low-level manager or a pesky end-user is hardly a selling point.

The point is, if all the implementation folks out there think they deliver more value (which I agree that they do, but of a different sort), why get bitter about the Strat folks that only deliver powerpoint slides and excel sheets? (The few hostile replies here seem to suggest that bitterness). And if you guys aren't trying to associate with the Strat guys, then why get so defensive about the "Consultant" term? The defensive stance suggests that you assign a "ego premium" from being called a "Consultant". And if you guys were really convinced that you deliver more value to the clients compared to the Strat folks, why are there so many people who are trying to move from implementation to Strat? My take is that each person is collectively defensive, but individually wishes to be paid more, irrespective of the value you really bring to the client.

Any more (hostile) comments?

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#10 RE: Venting Frustration (2)
01/03/2007 10:52

Dingo to deleted (#0)

Bob,

If you start a mesage attacking people as "bunch of clowns" just how do you expect to be engaged in a thoughtful discussion of the particular term ? You were trolling and no number of wordy replies is going to change that.

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#11 RE: Venting Frustration (2)
01/03/2007 10:54

Derrick to deleted (#0)

I think, to be honest, it is this post which could do to be delivering more value.

I am an implementations consultant. The reason why I am happy with my title? Because I consult. Perhaps you are surprised that implementation consultants consult? Fair enough - but I think that belies a lack of understanding of our professional - which I agree is not completely one-sided.

Let us take the example of a large ERP system. Your post, Bob, implies that we simply take this solution and implement it. Simple. No problems. No consulting. However broaden your view of consulting to outside the boardroom. It is sometimes equally, if not more, challenging, to go into a factory (staffed by people who are reticent, if not fearful, to change / technology and the thought of a consulting firm becoming deeply involved in their entrenched processes), analyse their needs and their requirements, then tailor the solution around them. More often than not, the solution we implement doesn't initially appear to fit their requirements so we talk to them, think creatively about how we can utilise the functionality of the system, apply change management techniques - to come up with a solution.

If this is not consulting - then I don't know what is? I would also argue that implementations consultants get more exposure to the key drivers of the business - which are, in anyone's book, it's people.

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#12 RE: Venting Frustration (2)
01/03/2007 11:07

are you for real to Derrick (#11)

Bob,

Based on the way you write, my guess is that you are not actually a strat consultant but just an infiltrator trying to wind a few people up for a cheap laugh. I cannot believe that a "proper" consultant would display such ignorance and inability to understand the simple points raised by others. The person who provides the 2 part dictionary description points out that a consultant could be a medical consultant providing consultation on health issue. This person is providing consultation advice and working with a patient to determine a solution. Funnily enough consultant is usually part of a job description and there are lots of forms of consultation/consultants. I think you know all of this because I know the calibre hired by the top tier strat firms and I cannot belive that you got through their recruitment processes. Rumbled I think.

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#13 RE: Venting Frustration (2)
01/03/2007 11:38

bri500 to are you for real (#12)

Quality not quantity? Ha ha, you make me laugh, my guess is that you were a recent intake and are 3 months in to your career at a strat house and are lapping all the rubbish they feed you as if you’re some elite. I’d love to hear your stories of all those CEO’s you’ve personally persuaded to save billions of dollars (especially as you’ve probably not left your desk in those 3 months).

I’d also love you to tell the Chief Operating Officer of all those board meetings you’re facilitating that he’s nothing more than a low-level manager and you’d like to replace him with someone really valuable like the Vice-President of the Strategy Department in future meetings.

Once again, you obviously have no clue about what consulting is as you only see strategy and IT implementation. Also, you also seem to completely miss the fact that consulting implies some sort of personal contact to make sure your ideas move in to the organisation you’re working for, as a junior grunt you’re in no place to even consider calling yourself a consultant for many years yet. Sure, you’re right, too many people take that title these days, unfortunately you should have included yourself in the original list.

Right, I’ll let you get back to your Excel sheet as there’s a gap on bookshelf somewhere that’s urgently needing one of your reports to fill it.

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#14 RE: Venting Frustration (2)
01/03/2007 11:45

Micky Mouse to bri500 (#13)

Ahhh the male peni$ enviy. Fabulous.

you guys not only probably work for the same company, but youre probably sitting beside each other.

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#15 RE: Venting Frustration (2)
01/03/2007 11:50

this is fun.... to bri500 (#13)

Bri strikes again!! I am a recruiter (yawn), the number of times a young candidate has told me that he/she has been offered "a unique chance to join the leading company..... I have been identified as one of an elite group to be fast tracked through the organisation, due to my unique skill-set. I am a key part of the company's future plans to expand it business into sector X. etc etc etc

WAKE UP. They make about 1000% profit for every day you are on a client site. If they can big you up enough, you might just carry it off. You are a gold mine for them. When you leave, they will just replace you with another load of grads who cost them less but are charged out at a similar rate.

We have often felt that there is no price too high if we could get the guys who sell consulting to come and work for us they would sell our services at 10 times the price we do.

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#16 RE: Venting Frustration (2)
01/03/2007 12:17

salesguy to this is fun.... (#15)

.......................We have often felt that there is no price too high if we could get the guys who sell consulting to come and work for us they would sell our services at 10 times the price we do.................................

pls explain in detail; you are still looking???

interested to hear proposal

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#17 RE: Venting Frustration (2)
01/03/2007 13:16

Winston Churchill to Bob (#1)

In conclusion, Bob, it seems that no-one shares your sentiment. Please get back to us when you have grown some hair under your arm-pits.

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#18 RE: Venting Frustration (2)
01/03/2007 17:05

Mike to Winston Churchill (#17)

Bob,

Are you really that big of a pompous, arrogant idiot? You think Strat Consultants are the only kind that should be considered real consultants? That's funny. You obviously have no knowledge of other consulting practices and areas. Implementation Consultants do actually CONSULT - just as well as other forms of consulting. To think that Strat is the only area that should be called a "consulting" area is just glib. If you don't have any knowledge of the area, you might want to refrain from bashing it.

I agree with the Winston Churchill, Derrick, and Dingo posts, as well as the others who have pointed out what an idiot you are. Looks like you're the only one with that senseless point of view.

Get off your high horse already.

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#19 RE: Venting Frustration (2)
02/03/2007 04:18

Bob to Mike (#18)

Haha... yes Mike, seems like no one here shares my point of view, nor choose to express such opinions openly. Let's all get off our high horses and pretend to be humble and polite.

bri500, seems like you're pretty disgruntal yourself about how hard you've worked to get where you are right now where you have tons of client interaction. I must have hit a nerve there. haha.

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#20 RE: Venting Frustration (2)
02/03/2007 05:09

bri500 to Bob (#19)

I had client interaction from day one out of university, hence I had no trouble calling myself a consultant. I'm laughing at you as you clearly spend most of your life in a darkened room but still act the big shot to your friends and family.

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#21 RE: Venting Frustration (2)
02/03/2007 06:43

Bob to bri500 (#20)

yes bri500 (a.k.a Mr. Consultant), we're all very happy for you. :)

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#22 RE: Venting Frustration (2)
02/03/2007 09:16

Come on to Bob (#21)

Come on children - play nicely.

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#23 RE: Venting Frustration (2)
02/03/2007 13:26

Anon to Come on (#22)

Bob, your post really does smack of either a ridiculous type of arrogance, or just serious ignorance. I work for an MBBB strat house (and no, its not Booz for those of you trying to second guess me) and can't think of any collegues who openly share your view. You seem to have missed the point that the term 'Consultant' is indeed an extremely generic one that covers a huge range of jobs. As has already been mentioned on this thread, I doubt anyone would quibble over an expert on coronary surgery calling themselves a "consultant", yet they clearly do not work for a strat house. Likewise operational and technology consultants do just that - they 'consult' in their particular field of exertise. It is the fact that Consultancy covers such a broad range of jobs that we use terms like "stratergy consultant" or "technology consultant" to differentiate. But as most members of this forum seem to agree, we are all "consultants" in some field.

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#24 RE: Venting Frustration (2)
02/03/2007 16:12

Hey to Anon (#23)

But in the end guys - aren't we ALL consultants in the great and glorious game of life??

The answer, of course, is no......

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#25 RE: Venting Frustration (2)
06/03/2007 14:05

hmm to Hey (#24)

nothing serious to add, just wanted to put Bob back to the top of the pile

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#26 RE: Venting Frustration (2)
06/03/2007 15:44

hehe to hmm (#25)

Doesn't Bob believe that he's ALWAYS on "top of the pile"? :)

Silly Bob..... what an idiot...... hah

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#27 RE: Venting Frustration (2)
07/03/2007 18:03

Bob: verb or noun? to Bob (#1)

Bob--spoken as a true imbecile! I propose that we rename the strategy consultants something more appropriate: parasites, lumps, tumors, bedsores, egotistas, frustrosexuals, etc.

Have you looked at the postings on this board? They're not exclusive to strategy, chum. Anyone who thinks that the word 'consultant' applies exclusively to strategy is hardly a strategic thinker, if much of a thinker at all.

The only strategy consultants I know who have ever crossed the line into industry--the real world--fall hard on their faces, and end up returning, or trying to return to their former days of Herman Miller chairs and bordeaux at dinner.

Go back to the playroom and tuck your shirt in, you're making an a$$ of yourself here.

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#28 RE: Venting Frustration (2)
07/03/2007 18:14

anon to Bob: verb or noun? (#27)

oh, wow, that last one was a bit too harsh.

Lets try to keep this thread professional, please, ok?

Lets not take certain comments as if our jos were everything we had and so criticising anything about it, was as if our kids had gotten a beating.

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#29 RE: Venting Frustration (2)
07/03/2007 20:23

Boxershorts to anon (#28)

I have never read such a crock of horse$hit in my life!

Bob, I suspect the only board you've ever been near is this one. Arrogance on legs, I reckon. And misplaced at that.

I note that there actually was one poster who agreed with you: Pirlo. But looking at some of his/her contributions in the past I'm not sure if that is a commendation of your view or not.

Consultant: the accepted definition of this term includes anyone who provides specialist advice, opinion, analysis or expertise, when solicited by a client, for a fee.

End of story.

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#30 RE: Venting Frustration (2)
12/03/2007 09:08

Bring back Bob..... to Boxershorts (#29)

to the top of the forum list on a Monday morning .... you've gotta love him!

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#31 RE: Venting Frustration (2)
12/03/2007 09:21

Pirlo to Bring back Bob..... (#30)

I completely agree with Boxershorts, and with thier defenition of a consultant.

At the same time, some people consider a 1£ bottle of tinted water sold at Budgens to be wine. Others, might call that gasoline and have a completely different perception of wine.

What it essentially boils down to is that one is better, stronger, smarter - faster. A master if you will.

And the other 'wine' is just a Tesco follow up. Even if its finest, its still pretty cr$p.

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#32 RE: Venting Frustration (2)
12/03/2007 09:52

Pirlo to Pirlo (#31)

sorry, I meant "their" and "definition". I apologise also for the incorrect context in which I used the word their, which would have been gramatically incorrect even if I had spelled it rightly

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#33 RE: Venting Frustration (2)
12/03/2007 10:33

Don't Be Fooled to Pirlo (#32)

I've seen people like Bob before... they like to post very controvertial (sometimes blatantly idiotic) opinions on forums and watch people just erupt. People like him probably don't even patronize one particular forum too often since there are so many forums out there full of people with strong opinions.

By putting him back on the chart periodically, you are just playing into his game. Sure you feel better about yourself after hurling one insult after another, but don't you think he's got us eating out of his hand if we continue this? Who's the REAL smart guy here? The person who comes on this forum and makes the most absurd remark, pisses people off and makes them waste their time on this, or the people who know when to ignore an idiot and move on to the more relevant and important postings?

I should be the last fella here wasting time on this retarded post!!!

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#34 RE: Venting Frustration (2)
12/03/2007 11:20

come on... to Don't Be Fooled (#33)

it is so much fun to highlight the pig ignorance of some of the more junior strategy consultants out there.... I guess it is nice for those who did not quite make it to see that it is not quite such an elite group afterall

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#35 RE: Venting Frustration (2)
14/03/2007 09:30

Bring back Bob to come on... (#34)

come on Bob, when is the next pearl of wisdom coming?

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#36 RE: Venting Frustration (2)
14/03/2007 14:04

prof services hooker to Bring back Bob (#35)

Strategy consultants are a breed apart - not really human. Mainly automatons who get to a posh uni, get some excel and powerpoint training and then let loose destroying businesses and shareholder value.

The term "adding value" is missing three words; it "adding value to (pin striped slimy) partners bank a/c".

Strat consultants arrive at their conclusions/recommendations whilst doing basic lower region bodily functions. They then spend months of 12 hr billable days raiding a customer's data sources looking for data they can manipulate to support their recommendations.

The strat house interview process is not about your brain and skills - grow up. It is like the SAS recruitment. They are testing your endurance and pain thresholds.

Strat consultants' motto is "lies, lies, more lies supported in appendix a-z by slides, docs and spreadsheets".

The quicker this industry is regulated and taxed like cigarettes and booze due it's addictive and destructive nature, the better. Using McK, BAS, BCG is like being hooked on coke and meth. The user car polyster suited sales men in these brothels (oops sorry client managers) sell

Finally - what is the difference between a brothel and McKinsey? In a brothel, the younger and more virgin like the product, the higher the hourly rate unlike McKinsey if you are a virgin, your hourly rate is really low.

"two dollars for a good time"..

Anyway I am off to present to a CEO and then drink Kristal with his CFO.

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#37 RE: Venting Frustration (2)
16/03/2007 14:48

Sparky to prof services hooker (#36)

Hilarity on a Friday afternoon...marvellous. Bob you really are a bit of a twat aren't you? Please refrain from the expression "go figure" unless you are an American.

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#38 RE: Venting Frustration (2)
19/03/2007 07:41

The Bring Back Bob Campaign to Sparky (#37)

Come on Bob.... a new week, a new gem of wisdom...

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