Thread List
First Page Previous Page Page 237 / 320 Next Page Last Page
Subject#Latest
2 27.10.06
1 27.10.06
4 27.10.06
2 26.10.06
7 26.10.06
3 26.10.06
1 26.10.06
6 26.10.06
4 25.10.06
3 25.10.06
1 25.10.06
6 25.10.06
4 25.10.06
17 25.10.06
1 25.10.06
5 25.10.06
5 24.10.06
8 24.10.06
2 24.10.06
25 24.10.06
1 24.10.06
1 24.10.06
8 24.10.06
6 23.10.06
12 23.10.06
9 23.10.06
3 23.10.06
3 22.10.06
3 22.10.06
2 22.10.06
13 22.10.06
1 22.10.06
1 22.10.06
2 21.10.06
10 21.10.06
7 21.10.06
4 21.10.06
3 20.10.06
1 20.10.06
2 20.10.06
4 20.10.06
1 20.10.06
4 20.10.06
28 20.10.06
3 20.10.06
1 20.10.06
3 19.10.06
7 19.10.06
23 19.10.06
1 19.10.06
First Page Previous Page Page 237 / 320 Next Page Last Page

Does racism still exist in the Big 5?

 
#1 Does racism still exist in the Big 5?
19/01/2006 01:50

Calling all ethnics

<br>A friend reliably informs me that at his induction with ACN, they said two sets of almost identical CV's were sent out to all the Big 5 + FTSE 100 companies.

<br>The only difference were the names.

One was Andrew Smith and the other something Patel. Apparently Mr Smith got about 50% more positive responses than Mr Patel. In fact Mr Smith got 80% positive responses.

<br>

Granted my friends induction was a while ago ( 2 years +), has anyone got anyother stories that they would like to share regarding racism within Consulting firms (as opposed to just HR).

<br>I am interested to know how this afects day to day roles, career development. How is this overcome?

<br> Serious responses only please.

<br>In addition has anyone got any input on positive discrimination? i.e Ethnics geeting ahead because of their origin? Its a long shot but hey.

Reply  Quote   
 
#2 Re: Does racism still exist in the Big 5?
19/01/2006 09:24

peter

Hi I work for ACN and i had the same induction, with the same example and would like to clarify a few points. 1) this was done by a newspaper ( a tabloid i cant remember which) - and therefore could easily be researched on the net to get exact figures.

when i was interviewing at KPMG, during my last stage, the partner interviewing me made the comment &quot; as you can see if you work here you will be surrounded by a white environment&quot;. needless to say i did not accept KPMG's offer and now work in a great multi racial company, ACN.

Reply  Quote   
 
#3 Re: Does racism still exist in the Big 5?
19/01/2006 10:11

Brain Damage

I work for Atos Consulting - and it's one of the most diverse organisations I've worked for. People of all ages, races, shapes and sizes - and people from all corners of the world. No evidence of racism, sexism or any other 'isms' here...

Reply  Quote   
 
#4 Re: Does racism still exist in the Big 5?
19/01/2006 11:28

AsianGuy

I worked at ACN and on placement 3 yrs ago and one time and one of the ladies there got quite drunk and did make some jokes and i did take them quite offensively (no-one else there found them funny!) - i do have to say she was a contractor. I didnt raise it - i was a student and didnt want to make a big deal out of it.

I did go on to work with them later stage and found no racism there...so my view now is at Accenture i was unlucky to have met this woman. Also, if i had raised it know it would have been dealt with severely. THUMBS UP FOR ACN!

(THMBS DOWN FOR THERE WORK/LIFE BALANCE ;)

Reply  Quote   
 
#5 Re: Does racism still exist in the Big 5?
19/01/2006 14:02

honky

I'm the last one for PC, but I'm not sure you should refer to &quot;ethnics&quot;.

Are you just trying to stir up sh1t anyway? Debate on racial matters is almost invariably (1) provocative, and (2) boring.

Reply  Quote   
 
#6 Re: Does racism still exist in the Big 5?
19/01/2006 17:03

George

-invariably its &quot;boring&quot; for people such as yourself because you have the advantage of not being an &quot;ethnic&quot; in the first place

Reply  Quote   
 
#7 Re: Does racism still exist in the Big 5?
19/01/2006 17:22

honky

Well debate away then!

Reply  Quote   
 
#8 Re: Does racism still exist in the Big 5?
20/01/2006 16:14

Minority Geezer

Couple of general observations on this topic:

a) Generally levels of racism are higher in the UK and stateside, but a lot lot lower than the continent. Guess the US is a country built by immigrants - My own experience - Germany and Austrai are the worst.

b) All firms are increasingly (especially IT consulting and outsourcing ones) used mixed delivery models, so you come across people from all parts of the world - directly or virtually; this is driving a lot of change.

c) Americans discriminate in different ways - you europeans cant do long hours, take too many holidays, etc.

d) Racism outside the firm you work for, especially in client organisations is a lot more difficult to deal with. A lot of depends on the client's industry. FS is generally pretty good, so is Telco and Media, on the other hand manufacturing, logistics, etc especially up North, also some government departments - racism can be quite bad and blatant.

e) The last point I make is that how many of us racist but just hide it and keep it in check in the workplace. Probably some of us save it for the pub when we are with mates.

Reply  Quote   
 
#9 Re: Does racism still exist in the Big 5?
21/01/2006 10:02

DC

We have only have to look at the profile of Senior Management in all the Big 5 to realise that ehnicity and gender are unfairly represented.

<br><br>All employees (of any gender, race etc) want is an equal chance to get hired by a firm and an equal chance at progressing on the firm.

Reply  Quote   
 
#10 Re: Does racism still exist in the Big 5?
24/01/2006 21:04

an individual opinion

Policies of 'positive' discrimination can also be very unfair. It is wrong to recognise ethnicity and ignore merit.

I worked on a project with somebody called Patel once who was very capable, but I do not assume that everyone with this surname is going to be.

Global experience (and I don't really mean going on holiday) helps with getting more objective on this issue, but obviously there are other ways to do this as well.

Reply  Quote   
 
#11 RE: Does racism still exist in the Big 5?
15/10/2006 01:09

Interesting Links to an individual opinion (#10)

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/a832e19a-4185-11db-b4ab-0000779e2340.html

Reply  Quote   
 
#12 RE: Does racism still exist in the Big 5?
15/10/2006 01:23

wishful thinker to an individual opinion (#10)

I agree with "an individual opinion". I work in an established London consultancy and whilst I can live with the underlying current of racist and sexist attitudes, the source of most of these is the much more frustrating cultural bigotry of people who all went to the same university, live in the same neighbourhood, and have never lived or worked outside London or the home counties.

As this thread is now nearly nine months old, perhaps we should launch a new thread about ageism?

Reply  Quote   
 
#13 RE: Does racism still exist in the Big 5?
15/10/2006 01:26

nugrad to an individual opinion (#10)

'policies of "positive" discrimination' are just as illegal as policies of negative discrimination, all a firm is allowed to do - to my knowledge - is encourage people from various backgrounds to apply but its illegal to offer a job to somone based on race not capability ethnic or not.

Reply  Quote   
 
#14 RE: Does racism still exist in the Big 5?
15/10/2006 02:11

anon to deleted (#0)

Yup,

But 'cultural fit' is also very important, and racism/other isms, can sneak in that way.

Also, many firms, especially the 'top tiers', don't have to exercise explicit racisms/classisms on entry (isms often intersect it seems to me), as the whole 'no less than 3As' just about rules out anyone who has not been privately educated - whatever their 'racial' background. Elitism often = racism, imho.

So, if at 16 you don't happen to go to an excellent school in the home counties, or your parents can't afford to send you private - forget it. In this country, that's mostly white kids. Thankfully, as adults some are pretty much free of racism and can embrace diversity, recognising that being white is part of it. White is a colour too etc.

'Does racism still exist in the big 5?' is a bit of a no brainer. It exists in society, even in 'multi-racial' families, so why not at work? The thing to do it recognise it and deal with it. Or, do our best too.

It's hard though, because people often say very prejudice things, but they honestly don't seem to realise - and calling it EVERY SINGLE TIME IT HAPPENS would be like another full time job, and it just feels too much sometimes. As a white person, I think it's especially hard, even though we are in the best position to, like 'at the pub' when the 'others' aren't there.

Reply  Quote   
 
#15 RE: Does racism still exist in the Big 5?
15/10/2006 09:29

jude to anon (#14)

It might be harder, but it's not the case that people from poorer backgrounds can't achieve the same levels of success. There are a lot of good comprehensive out there... I went to a local comp and still got 4 A's at A level and a number of my friends did equally well.

Reply  Quote   
 
#16 RE: Does racism still exist in the Big 5?
15/10/2006 18:23

Comp Boy to jude (#15)

Anon - speak for yourself. Will second jude's comments. I also went to a so-so inner city comprehensive and got good A-Levels. I'm a bit of an aberration at my firm though, many of whom were expensively educated, inevitably got the 3As, went to Cambridge to study the least demanding subject on offer and were then recruited by some older and more senior who had done much the same thing.

So class snobbery is alive and well I think. You are not quite right that you have to be privately educated but it certainly helps. You are right that the end result is often a whiter firm that is strictly representative.

Reply  Quote   
 
#17 RE: Does racism still exist in the Big 5?
16/10/2006 23:41

minority to Calling all ethnics (#1)

Many of the bg 5 keep tabs on the ethnicity of their emloyees. This is in an effort to ensure the make up of the organisation is representative of the wider population. Well at least thats the PC reason.

I guess in this increasingly sue to be sued culture, it is only a matter of time before somebody brings a case against one of them. Senior management is not representative of the wider population and bad publicity would have an extremely detrimental impact on the companies reputation. After all Millions each year are spent on ensuring the right messages are sent out, even though the reality is totally different.

Reply  Quote   
 
#18 RE: Does racism still exist in the Big 5?
17/10/2006 09:52

bri500 to minority (#17)

At consultancies as with many firms in this country, I don't think there's a deliberate attempt to be racist in their selection process, rather it's let down by the "recruit in your own image" problem that is nearly impossible to stop without positive discrimination.

Speaking to some people in the minority groups in my firm, I think their biggest gripe at the moment is the constant harrassment from various corporate initiatives to encourage more minorities and women to stay in the workplace. If you're a non-white female it's nearly impossible to get any client work done as you have so many questionnaires and interviews to complete internally!

Reply  Quote   
 
#19 RE: Does racism still exist in the Big 5?
17/10/2006 13:02

new initiative to bri500 (#18)

that PR machine has to keep pumping out initatives......as the old saying goes, action is better than words and self congratulatory back slapping.

Reply  Quote   
 
#20 RE: Does racism still exist in the Big 5?
19/10/2006 16:09

Upenyu Chihota to Calling all ethnics (#1)

Racism is in the genes of these organisations. I have attended interviews where I excelled and the companies dithered and in two instances they said they had to suspend the recruiting.

I know of many mediocre graduates from european countries with degrees not relevant to business who are employed at the expense of appropriately qualified and experienced African graduates. Most of the racism is deliberate and subliminal.

The issue of permission to work in the UK is a common rationalisation of many of these companies. I cannot understand why these companies cannot help in securing work permits toi deserving incumbents. Some consider NQV holders more than black people with advanced degrees and experience.

Reply  Quote   
 
#21 RE: Does racism still exist in the Big 5?
19/10/2006 16:49

Fries for your shoulders sir? to Upenyu Chihota (#20)

Suggest you read up on the legislation!

Not easy to secure work permits for non-EU candidates. So saying, why should they if there are already so many candidates? All things being equal, you take the one already allowed to work there. Permits come in when you can't find the people.

Don't blame the firms, blame the government, if anyone.

PS you will be aware that most of the world's best universities are in the US, quite a few in Europe and a sprinkling in Australasia. Africa is not so well represented. This may also be a factor in various ways; perhaps you'd find a different scenario if you'd been to a university in the market you wish to work and had done an internship.

Reply  Quote   
 
#22 you are the jack of all asses
19/10/2006 17:05

pirlo to Fries for your shoulders sir? (#21)

sorry my friend - but youre an idiot.

I went to oxbridge and had LOADS of clever african and extra-european friends, with predicted 1st degrees in relevant subjects not being able to apply nearly anwhere because of thier nationality.

your comment about "perhaps you'd find a different scenario if you'd been to a university in the market you wish to work and had done an internship. " is completely out of order.

There are LOADS of brilliant students with degrees better than yours that cant secure and intership because of what nationality they hold.

Be ashamed.

Reply  Quote   
 
#23 RE: you are the jack of all asses
19/10/2006 17:21

Fries for your shoulders sir? to pirlo (#22)

You don't know what my degree is or what skills I bring that your friends could not. However, I'm sure there were some that were better than I am. That's not the point though, re-read my post.

The companies do not make the laws, the government does. If you see the EU as a cosy club to exclude outsiders, then fair enough, you may have a point but that has little to do with individual employers.

As far as I am aware, antionality will not preclude you from a summer internship if you are at university in the UK - ?

As for feeling ashamed, no chance. Why should I feel ashamed for being born here and having a job. My forebears were immigrants and each generation has got a bit further. I see no reason to answer to anyone for this.

Reply  Quote   
 
#24 RE: you are the jack of all asses
19/10/2006 17:23

adams boss to Fries for your shoulders sir? (#23)

Be informed. It is not law yet government policy.

Some companies accept applications on a global level. Some require work permits. It is protocol and down to the corporation.

For example in the UK to work for KPMG you need a valid work visa. At EY, they will apply for one for you if you pass the application stage.

This says a LOT about the comapny.

I suggest you get your facts straight before you start with your immigration propaganda.

Reply  Quote   
 
#25 RE: you are the jack of all asses
19/10/2006 17:55

Fries for your shoulder sir? to adams boss (#24)

Suggest you don't go off on one. Don't accuse me of "immigration propaganda" - will you be crying "racist" next?

The LAW is that migrant workers require permits.

Reply  Quote   
 
#26 RE: you are the jack of all asses
19/10/2006 17:58

Fries for your shoulders sir? to Fries for your shoulder sir? (#25)

PS I experienced similar problems with working in the States. That's just the way it is. Countries will try and make it hard for outsiders to come and expensive for companies who want to give them the chance.

Reply  Quote   
 
#27 RE: you are the jack of all asses
20/10/2006 09:12

bri500 to Fries for your shoulders sir? (#26)

I would suggest that the reason many companies ask for a work permit is that they've been burned so many times before going through an expensive recruitment process only for someone to be refused. As the person above states, it's the government that constrains this and companies are only reacting to minimise the amount of management time, effort and money from being wasted.

There is also the issue that you will be expected to go and work anywhere in the world at the drop of a hat and getting entry/ visas is easier with some passports than other (as you obviously have experienced).

Is it racist? I wouldn't be happy if it went against me, but it's not an issue constrained to consultancy. As above, your beef on this issue should be with the government.

Reply  Quote   
 
#28 RE: you are the jack of all asses
20/10/2006 10:15

Fries for your shoulders sir? to bri500 (#27)

Clearly it isn't racist as it discriminates on the grounds of nationality rather than race. It also includes a certain selection of nationalities "in the club". A Briton of Asian origin will be better placed in this respect than a white South African.

That applies when we are talking about work permits, at least. I can't comment on literal racial discrimination in recruiting, as it applis to Britons of different colours.

Reply  Quote   

Top of Page

ThreadID: 12901

Advertise
Your Jobs!