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enquiry with request

 
#1 enquiry with request
16/11/2005 07:03

sanjiv

Respected Sir,

I have gone through your coloumn Career advice during surfing net.

It's so knowledgable site and encourage me to ask

I am B. Tech (ECE) and presently pursuing MBA (IT) Final Year. I wanna

inquire about the job and career prospects of the field in Telecom sector. I wanna pursue my career in Telecom sector . please elaborate.

Hoping to hear from you at the earliest.

With regards

Sanjiv

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#2 Re: enquiry with request
16/11/2005 12:19

Pad

You goota be kidding me

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#3 Re: enquiry with request
16/11/2005 16:38

RG

You sir are a clown. Consider yourself added to the roll of honour of bizarre Indians. Does IIT not insist on decent TOEFL scores for its MBA students?

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#4 Re: enquiry with request
17/11/2005 10:29

Response to RG

RG i dont know from where in Sanjiv's statement you picked up IIT. IIT is one of the World's Premier Institute in Engineering education with one of the most difficult entrance exams in the world to get through. If you find difficult believing just go an attempt once you will not get through I assure you. For your information it does not run MBA. Well if you do not find my English good enough I dont care but I hope you understand English is not the only language in the world.

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#5 Re: enquiry with request
17/11/2005 11:25

Jamy

Great comment! I don’t quite understand why people in the forum, and I guess more generally in consulting, are so concerned about English grammar. If you’re not a native speaker it is going to be extremely difficult to posses an immaculate English, but that doesn’t mean you’re less intelligent, less able to do a good job or are a weaker communicator. I know quite a few people who speak a grammatically perfect English but are monotone and pedantic and they look boring too!

Is this just another entry barrier to protect certain types, discriminating on prejudices and protecting a false elitism in the industry?

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#6 Re: enquiry with request
17/11/2005 17:05

Admirable but hang on a minute...

I am a native English speaker and don't speak any foreign language apart from dabbling in French when abroad etc... and I fully admire foreigners for learning English with all it's strange and illogical quirks.

However, there are some basics that must be addressed in all job markets let alone consultancy and the associated competition in getting a position in today's current job market. ANYONE who can't communicate clearly and properly whether it be written or spoken and whether they are foreign or not is at a huge disadvantage when it comes to securing a position in an industry where communicating in a pressurised client driven environment is the foundation of our trade.

I fully believe in equal opportunities in terms of gender, race, religion....whatever, but when you can't talk the talk as well as is needed, you won't be as good as a native speaker and you won't be able to walk the walk as well either! There is no false elitism in the industry based on communication and how well you can speak the language of wherever you are working

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#7 Re: enquiry with request
17/11/2005 17:41

Jamy

Communicating with others is an essential skill in business dealings, friendships, family affairs, and romantic relationships. Are you a dynamic people person that can understand others and get your message across loud and clear? YES!

Communication is the process of exchanging information and ideas. An active process, it involves encoding, transmitting, and decoding intended messages. There are many means of communicating and many different language systems. Speech and language are only a portion of communication. Other aspects of communication may enhance or even eclipse the linguistic code. These aspects are paralinguistic, nonlinguistic, and metalinguistic. Paralinguistic mechanisms signal attitude or emotion and include intonation, stress, rate of delivery, and pause or hesitation. Nonlinguistic clues include gestures, body posture, facial expression, eye contact, head and body movement, and physical distance or proxemics. Metalinquistic cues signal the status of communication based on our intuitions about the acceptability of utterances. In other words, metalinguistic skills enable us to talk about language, analyze it, think about it, separate it from context, and judge it.

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#8 Re: enquiry with request
17/11/2005 18:13

chill

Yep - and that's what the man was doing... judging it! :)

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#9 Re: enquiry with request
21/11/2005 15:04

Admirable but hang on a minute

Clearly there are many aspects to communicating sufficiently to deliver the intended message but when I'm stuffed for time or have a sensitive subject to get up to speed on about a client's requirements I don't want gestures or hints or anything else apart from accurately described facts with the correct magnitude of intangibles or subjective factors attributed to them.

Bottom line is my business depends on it. As i've said before I am all for foreign employees that are not native English speakers-we have many in my organisation and they add just as much value as native English speakers. But they all agree, if they can't communicate as well as their English collegues their work suffers and they lack the ability to deliver it. All foreign employees in the firm I work for speak very near perfect English-they have developed it and we work with them to iron out accents etc.. to give them the tools to do their job as well as they can in the eyes of the client. That is the bottom line, we don't get paid if we don't deliver!

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#10 Re: enquiry with request
21/11/2005 18:16

Jamy

The perception some of us have is that Management Consulting is not as “mature” as Investment Banking with regards to diversity and openness towards foreign employees.

There are many not native English speakers, French, Spanish, Germans, Italians, Scandinavians … and extra-Europeans, working in the City and moving up the ranks. This way Banks attract and retain the best the World can offer, adding a more international and diverse dimension to their business.

Although large consulting companies have worldwide operations, the perception is that it is quite difficult to move from one country to another and it also seems that national offices are less well integrated in the EMEA and global context.

To what extent is this right? And why?

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#11 Re: enquiry with request
21/11/2005 21:34

Admirable

I don't think perceptions are a solid foundation for making any sort of judgement on this..whether MC is a 'mature' industry or not etc in terms of it's diversity.

I can't comment on the sector or industry as a whole, nor compare it to banking but from my experience non-native English speakers climb the ladder just as fast as native employees IF they encorporate the correct grammar and language into their work and delivery to the client. Personally I think banking is a more internationally universal trade/profession that circumvents language barriers much more than consultancy can do, due to the nature of the job role.

I think consultancy is possibly one of the most demanding professions for a non-native speaker in any country due to the demands of the role and requirements to deliver and sell in a subtle manner although I am sure there are many successful non-native English speaking consultants out there doing a fine job.

My point Jamy is that no-one can expect to secure a role if the basics aren't there. Poor grammar and spelling and an obvious weakness with the language of the host nation will put recruiters off because it will inevitable hinder the firm's delivery. In the UK, a native English speaker who failed their English GCSE and couldn't write properly/correctly would face the same treatment on any application form. Although allowances are surely made for non-native English speakers because of the diversity and value a different nationality will bring to any firm, the buck stops with Human Resources as it does with all of us.

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#12 Re: enquiry with request
21/11/2005 23:16

Jamy

Admirable, you know what … you’re right. Sanjiv, sorry I tried my best but it’s clear we don’t have the basics and would never deliver in consulting. We would never pass the English GCSEs, let’s start a dating website instead!

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#13 Re: enquiry with request
22/11/2005 09:41

Admirable

Jamy,

Sarcasm will get you nowhere either-although any comments of mine were not directed at you personally but were more of an observation of my experience of working with SOME non-native English speakers, appreciate the point even if you don't agree with it. If you think there is a weakness in your ENglish or whatever language or soft skill then it is up to the individual to keep it in check, develop it and hopefully turn it into a strength. Everyone does it and foreign employees in ANY country have to work on language, cultural appreciation and differing customs to deliver to the best of their ability.

As for dating websites, I'll leave it up to you

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#14 RE: enquiry with request
14/09/2006 13:48

Spellcheck to Admirable (#13)

Admirable

I hate to be a pedant, but since you are busy emphasising the importance of accurate communication in English (a point with which I agree entirely):

It's = It is

Its = Of it

Example:

It's true that logic would dictate the inclusion of an apostrophe to denote possession in the second example. However, once you have properly learnt the language, with all of its illogical quirks, you will see that I am telling you the truth.

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#15 RE: enquiry with request
14/09/2006 14:00

You guys are really intresting to Spellcheck (#14)

Can you guys PLEASE stop commenting on other peoples English. It's just Sad. You two should look at yourself, get a life and understand that correcting peoples grammar in online chat rooms IS VERY VERY SAD.

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#16 RE: enquiry with request
14/09/2006 14:19

Spellcheck to You guys are really intresting (#15)

Was simply pointing out the irony of

"I fully admire foreigners for learning English with all it's strange and illogical quirks"

By the way, it's intEresting. It just sounds like intresting.

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#17 RE: enquiry with request
14/09/2006 14:49

You guys are really... to Spellcheck (#16)

Touche!

And its spell-check, not spellcheck, smart ar$e.

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#18 RE: enquiry with request
14/09/2006 14:54

erm to You guys are really... (#17)

I think you'll find that's "touché"

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#19 RE: enquiry with request
14/09/2006 15:11

WTF? to erm (#18)

everyone shut up about stupid grammatical errors would you?? you do my head in!!! I'd love to know what you actually do for a living... other than sitting about in forums correcting people!! grrr. The fact is the guy can not write in english!!

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#20 RE: enquiry with request
14/09/2006 15:22

William Carlos Williams to WTF? (#19)

"can not"

I think that should be 'cannot'.

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#21 RE: enquiry with request
14/09/2006 15:30

WTF? to William Carlos Williams (#20)

OMG! See what I mean!?!? GET A LIFE!!

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#22 RE: enquiry with request
14/09/2006 15:43

erm to deleted (#0)

The people who do my head in are those who cannot write English properly. Yes, that's right: English has a capital "E".

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#23 RE: enquiry with request
14/09/2006 15:48

for Sanjiv to sanjiv (#1)

Sanjiv,

My apologies about the responses to your post. Unfortunately Consulting as an industry is full of idiots like this. Some of us are decent human beings though.

From what you said, your eperience suggests that you would be a good candidate. Your English is pretty good, but could do with some 'polishing', as your written word will in many cases represent your firm.

Good luck

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#24 RE: enquiry with request
14/09/2006 16:05

dummy to Jamy (#7)

hey, what with the technical words! Have you done a psychology degree by any chance seems as if you have developed a theory on communication.

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#25 RE: enquiry with request
15/09/2006 10:16

Bored of this to dummy (#24)

I've seen many non-native English speakers hold positions of authority and respect despite less than perfect language skills. Generally, people will make the effort to follow you, even if your English is not perfect, if your message is powerful enough. This goes double for a consultant, especially in Britain, where business people are interested in results, not 'icing'.

I've worked in another country where the quality of delivery was very important and I did notice that it could de-emphasize the quality of advice.

Of course I assume a basic standard is adhered to. You must be able to make yourself understood reasonably well.

Frankly though, the obsession with spelling and grammar on this board suggests a feeling of insecurity, with English and communication skills compensating for lack of depth in other areas.

Sure communication's important but the message is more important in business than fine delivery.

Personally I'd never spell check my posts - the forum has no spelling function and I won't waste my time running them through MS-Word. This is not a client report, it's just a place for us to chat.

I do think consulting is one of the more mature sectors in terms of diversity in the UK (at least in terms of Natioalities, gender is another matter).

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#26 RE: enquiry with request
18/09/2006 13:19

B to Bored of this (#25)

I agree with Bored... It is the substance and not style that matters. Real (busienss) leaders are after real results, you can tell the insecure ones by just the way they engage with you.

Sanjiv, you as a consultant will be expacted to deliver results and not works of art in English prose, so I guess you should be fine as long as you can find the best solution to your client's problem and communicate it effectively. Good luck.

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