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Severance package?

#1 Severance package?
26/04/2016 17:22


I am a Senior Manager with one of the MBB followers (think OW, Berger, S&, ATK) in Germany

I was told that I will not be promoted and they would rather see me go

As it is rather hard to fire people in Germany: Do I have a chance for a severance package? Any experience?

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#2 RE: Severance package?
26/04/2016 19:13

Bushy Eyebrow Partner to Strategy_Group_Guy (#1)

Good old "up or out", hey.

I don't know what to suggest. They see to be "asking" you to leave because they don't want to promote you? In which case what happens if you decline their kind offer?

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#3 RE: Severance package?
26/04/2016 19:37

Frio to Bushy Eyebrow Partner (#2)

I'd have thought they'd have to offer you a package, unless the up or out process is explicitly detailed in your employment contract and only if German law allows that.

In your position, I think I'd start looking for a new job and start negotiating the package with your employer as well as details such as they'll give you a reasonable reference etc etc. The ideally you'd have a job with an employer who will appreciate you and you'll have a nice wad of cash for leaving your present employer.

Can you explain their reasoning behind wanting to let you go? (without exposing who you are of course)

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#4 RE: Severance package?
27/04/2016 08:01

marsday to Strategy_Group_Guy (#1)

0.5. to 1 month pay per year of service would be usual for severance in Germany.

As you say, firing people in Germany while not in itself difficult is a risky step and most employers will look to reach a compromise agreement. I would suggest your chances are very good.

I also suggest you need to be proactive in this situation and not wait for them to make the next move. Approach the HR or line manager concerned with the proposition 'ok you want me out. How do you propose we do move forwards?' or words like that - put it on the table then let them come to you with their proposal. What you dont want to do is let this linger, as this will both affect your mental wellbeing and give them more time to put whatever case together they want to remove you. This way you indicate that you are willing to co-operate, which is really what severance packages are all about.

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#5 RE: Severance package?
27/04/2016 11:40

Bushy Eyebrow Partner to marsday (#4)

Also, why do they want you out?

If you're good at your current role, why not let you keep on doing that role?

If you're not, why not start a performance management process?

I've never understood the logic of saying "We don't think you can do the role above you (which you're not employed to do), so we need to let you go"

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#6 RE: Severance package?
27/04/2016 20:19

Richthekeeper to Bushy Eyebrow Partner (#5)

I guess he is blocking someone's promotion line who has the potential to driver greater revenue.

Either that or it's been a lean year and letting OP go is the least worst option.

The firm I work for really doesn't seem to do up or out, but I could imagine a time when there might be a need to reduce the number of senior managers who will never make director...

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#7 RE: Severance package?
27/04/2016 20:44

Frio to Richthekeeper (#6)

I've seen SMs who are fantastic at delivery. Liked, professional, organised, listen, recognise their shortcomings and seek advice. However, they have been rated "consistent with" year after year due to not achieving sales targets.

These people help sort out the messes that those other SMs and Ds sell but don't seem to get the recognition they deserve.

I've never worked out why these rare individuals are not cherished more.

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#8 RE: Severance package?
27/04/2016 23:44

Bushy Eyebrow Partner to Frio (#7)

It's all about the dosh, Frio.

The Mavericks who bring in the projects can show the dosh they've made for the company. They can say, "without us, this company is history".

The grafters who follow through and make sure the client is happy can't easily prove their financial worth. After all, they're just well-paid delivery bods right? whether they do a mediocre job or an excellent job doesn't make much immediate difference to the company's bottom line. But those sales Mavericks - well, if they're doing an excellent job, the cash rolls in and the profits speak for themselves.

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